If you want to fix backstab, here's an idea: it should not be the only attack you get in that round. It should take the energy of 2.5 or so swings. So if you have 4.5 raw swings, then you would get 2 additional swings after the backstab. If you have 7.5 swings, then you can get a full 5 swings. Just for balance issues, I'd suggest 2 other changes. 1. Mystics can sneak but cannot backstab, and 2. For thieves, it takes the energy of 2 swings instead of 2.5 so they can theoretically get more swings in.
So you want someone to get a high damage bs, plus mebbe 2 crits, getting a huge round? Yeah, that'll help the balance. /sarcasm
BS is a problem that needs to be addressed, this doesn't seem to be the answer..but I could be wrong :P
But where did ya come up with the 2.5? Just fiat? Maybe swings would be at 2x weapon speed or something.
Looking at when Backstab was balanced in mod 4, I believe the main issue with why it has devalued, in pvp, and in scripting are.
Combat/Spell damage increased due to change of combat spell damage, quick and deadly, more powerful weapons.
If backstab damage was increased this would balance the scripting side of things, but unbalance the pvp side.
I feel that if you increase backstab damage, hitpoints should also be increased.
Currently I feel the hitpoints are far too low in general, pvp is not tactical anymore its just luck, if you round someone or not.
Pvp in mod 4 is a lot more fun, and more meaningful, why blind someone/confuse/slow if you are going to round them anyway?
thergin, those are all very very valid good points.
but also, rounding people are the only way you can kill bitches in PVP anymore.
everyone runs like a motherfucker or hangs.
With high item drop chance, and % based loss of hps hanging is not always a great option. It has always been that way, at least before it cost a phone call.
This is kind of a quick toss it out there idea:
Getting 1 swing or 10 swings isn't so much of a big deal. Its a text game where 1 swing can represent one entire attack round. Lets say for a moment a bs attack has a number of swings in it and at the end you are only showed the total damage or if you completly botched the attack. Yes it would look the same but it would act different than it does right now.
(player) sends for a fury of surpise attacks at you for a total of (X) damage!
Now for each swing in that combo attack you use a bit of energy. That energy usage is similar to the normal combat mechanics as in you get more swings as you level and raise stats. Secondly if you could alter the energy usage for a weapons bs attack it would allow a more even and dynamic balance across the items department. I.e. actaully have a difference between bsing with a dagger rather then a mace. The end result being a more accurate attack with a more versitile damage range. That allows a degree of stratagy to be put back in as far as what weapon is the best for you to bs with at any given time. A secondary effect would also be the potential to all bsing with weapons that previously hit to hard do to the ability to set their bs energy usage independatly of their normal swings.
Also giving weapons a special strike type of DOT ability would another type of thing that can help close the gap like "on bs attack only" bleed-out 15% chance. Where the damage on the tic is based off of the total damage round.
Just a few passing thoughts.
TCA
how about just add a surprise attack quest at level 35 or something, think of backstab as a lower level 1-35 use and surprise attacks which would essential be a surprise round for 35+. just a thought, I like surprise rounds and want them to be there in GM.
Quote from: y2duhh on January 12, 2010, 08:14:20 PM
how about just add a surprise attack quest at level 35 or something, think of backstab as a lower level 1-35 use and surprise attacks which would essential be a surprise round for 35+. just a thought, I like surprise rounds and want them to be there in GM.
The way I look at it is that the surprise round would be a good all around replacement from lvl 1 to whatever. You'd always get at least 1 swing chance in them and it would be more suited to grow with a generally built character.
Having said that though it would then also free up the classic backstab as a special ability for some classes i.e theives and ninjas come to my mind first. The big thing I would change with it is that it wouldn't need to be done from a hidden or stealth pre-step. i.e. BS just engages combat and shows "no entering combat message".
<player> sidesteps you and stabs you in the back for <X> damage!
The thing is getting rid of the stealth pre-step actually makes the improved BS attack sneakier. Which is perfect for theives and ninjas character archetype. The next thing I would change is to increase the BS damage more based on the stealth of the character. The only limiting factor would be is that it would be more of a pvp move then a PVE one. However that could be remedied with ways of breaking both sides of combat. Which then also gives you the chance of manually landing a mid-combat BS.
Quote from: The Crazy Animal on January 12, 2010, 11:37:54 PM
The way I look at it is that the surprise round would be a good all around replacement from lvl 1 to whatever. You'd always get at least 1 swing chance in them and it would be more suited to grow with a generally built character.
Having said that though it would then also free up the classic backstab as a special ability for some classes i.e theives and ninjas come to my mind first. The big thing I would change with it is that it wouldn't need to be done from a hidden or stealth pre-step. i.e. BS just engages combat and shows "no entering combat message".
<player> sidesteps you and stabs you in the back for <X> damage!
The thing is getting rid of the stealth pre-step actually makes the improved BS attack sneakier. Which is perfect for theives and ninjas character archetype. The next thing I would change is to increase the BS damage more based on the stealth of the character. The only limiting factor would be is that it would be more of a pvp move then a PVE one. However that could be remedied with ways of breaking both sides of combat. Which then also gives you the chance of manually landing a mid-combat BS.
I agree but i see this as a more Thief, Missionary, Gypsy in the MajorMud World Ninjas and Rangers do damage and do more damage attacking than backstabbing.
I left the others out of it for the singular reason of they have magic to back them up. And that gives alot more tweaking and balance room for those classes. And don't get me wrong two of my favorite classes in the game are gypsie and missionary. I just see this as more of an assassination type attack.
And we really have to look at this as a altered mmud world since were free to create new formulas. Which is why I stated "The next thing I would change is to increase the BS damage more based on the stealth of the character." So the damage limitations of the classic BS attack don't really come into play.
I do agree though that Ninjas are always going to be iffy for making special attacks for since they do crit alot which is going to dramaticly increase their damage range.
If I were to make up something for Gypsie and Missionaries or even Rangers it would probably be the ability to surprise cast a spell. Something like set SC "spell name" then to engage the attack you just type SC "target". Each spell could even be balanced with a SC damage modifier value and a SC difficulty value. I leave the bard out of this one since it would be kind of hard to surprise someone while getting an ear full of a song.
in the current status of the game though, Thieves dont do alot of damage ok but have no xp chart but adding a little more to the chart and a special attack makes a little sense.
Ranger/Ninja - if I'm a Ranger or Ninja and I have a 2 hander and QND with I don't want to do a special surprise attack because honestly is the special surprise attack going to do more damage than 5 crits for 250-whatever? if thats the case then just call the surprise attack the surprise round a motherfucker attack :)
Bard/Gypsy/Missionary - surprise spell sounds nice at lower levels but think of a gypsy qnd with Laen, I now have a chance to do over 1k damage in a round if im well geared, id rather do a surprise round here too instead of a surprise spell.
I think these idea's are rather awful. Sorry I put it so bluntly.
Its ok Slutfishy everyones entiled to an opinion. How would you fix it then?
This thread is shaking up to be awesome. :box:
Quote from: y2duhh on January 14, 2010, 10:19:12 AM
in the current status of the game though, Thieves dont do alot of damage ok but have no xp chart but adding a little more to the chart and a special attack makes a little sense.
Ranger/Ninja - if I'm a Ranger or Ninja and I have a 2 hander and QND with I don't want to do a special surprise attack because honestly is the special surprise attack going to do more damage than 5 crits for 250-whatever? if thats the case then just call the surprise attack the surprise round a motherfucker attack :)
Bard/Gypsy/Missionary - surprise spell sounds nice at lower levels but think of a gypsy qnd with Laen, I now have a chance to do over 1k damage in a round if im well geared, id rather do a surprise round here too instead of a surprise spell.
Thieves need a lot of work done to them to really bring them back into the game as a fully play-able class. I?m not saying we can make warriors out of them or should but they should be a still be a useful and fun class to play in a competitive pvp realm. I mean really other than for the chart why play as a thief when you can play as a gypsy or a bard with all the same skills plus some magic to boot.
Let?s face it even if you can crit for ?250 ? whatever? not every class can you?re not going to get 5x of that every round so that?s a rather extreme measuring point 3-4 is much more realistic. The big issue is that this needs to be a fix that will be fair and balanced across all the classes. So it needs to take into account that you?re dealing with combat 1 to combat 5 at any variation in ability to crit.
Now provided that we can set the damage modifier, difficulty and energy consumption per swing chance per weapon to pull the attack off there is no reason to keep the generalized content rule of restricting backstabbing from two handed weapons. That would help close the damage gap lost to the previous need of switch over to a 1hander to bs and provide a suitable reason for 2 weapon classes to try to utilize the special attack.
With the surprise cast idea in the current mmud content set the problem comes down to a lack of new higher level more powerful spells. That?s not a huge problem to fix to make it a viable special ability.
The important thing to remember is that all of these revolve around the surprise functionality of the attack. We?re not talking about two warriors walking up to each other and saying let?s fight. Its damage done hopefully prior to the other person realizing they are being attacked.
I like where you are going with this.
Backstab is not restricted from 2 handed weapons. there are a huge array of 2 handed weapons you can backstab with.
Lifestealer
sai,
twin shortswords
ANY BOW weapon.
blackwood war-spear
elven war-spear
adamantite spear.
daikatana
obsidian trident
an array of 5th quest weapons.
etc...
Thieves have their advantages, They are not the greatest combat type, but they are a thief. They have the advantage of a LOW exp table (80%) and are also the only class in the game that can break into a vault.
If your guys's intention is to fix backstab purely to balance out a thief then just give him a bakstab bonus tacked on to the class.
But if you think backstab should be better, I am confused. There is an array of backstab bonus items in the game. I know of a thief in the pvp realm right now backstabbing for over 460+ dmg.
He wastes me in two rounds, and hes a pain n the ass to kill in arena even with the pvp dodge all messed up.
Honestly, if it wasn't for the dodge bein messed he would probably pwn me all the time.. Fun Part? He's lower level then me by almost 10 levels. and kicks my ass. he just doesnt get great exp scripting... thats the life of a leather wearer.. his exp table is much lower then me.
If you are trying to alter backstab to be better implimented as a more usable attack VIA scripting, then its pointless to talk about, this game is intended for "at keys play" gearing the game towards megamud is not the route to go.
If you guys are looking to give stealth classes more of an advantage with backstab as compared to non-stealth (warrior paladin etc) then just impliment more items with backstab bonuses that are gypsy,thief,ninja,missionary, bard only...
****
But if you truly just want to "spice up" backstab..
then impliment an ability list that stealth classes can get. ( Or QUEST for )
It will work like a spell list. Except you dont nececarilly "cast" it..
You just "activate" it
It should look like a spell in all reason, but no timed duration.
(I think they should work similar to mystic forms. Only one can be activated at a time but no timed duration)
(Also the technicalities of this can be figured out and diced up later)
*Example*
[HP=777]: abil
Ability List
------------------
crip - Cripple
sevr - Sever artery
Patk - Parylizing attack
pbla - Poison blast
fbla - flashing blade
-----------
Just an example of some abilities possible. (not exact, just esimates or generalizations)
-Cripple = -75 speed -100 quickness
-sever artery = bleeding, 5-15 for 25 rounds. Endcast: 5% chance to Cripple
-Paralyzing attack = (self explanitory) hold person for 1-3 rounds?
-Poison blast = (poison cloud erupts of your opponents attack!) poison 20-40 for 45 rounds
-flashing blade - (A blast of flashing light erupts from where you where struck!) blind person for ..4-10 rounds?
...you can make more and control which classes get which abilites this easily controlling backstab power and ability.
hell you can even make one specifically for thieves called something like
-forsaken encore - Attempts a 2nd backstab in same round at a 50% current health loss on a successful hit.
------------------ (second attack is at a -25bs accuracy, min bs damage and max bs damage)
put in a fun quest to obtain it to boot.
well those are my ideas and opinions. hope that opened some doors.
BTW i didn't mention, thought i should be obvious, just in case somone didnt understand me, that the abilities are for BACKSTABS only not basic combat. Im pretty sure you guys got that but just wanted to clarify:)
Ummm I did say generalized content rule for resticting 2-handers from backtabbing didn't I? Yes theres some that can.
And no this is not geared to just theives. Even though I think they need a good deal of work done to them. And thats not just counting pvp but also pve too.
I'll apollogize now since I'm a little drunk, if this turns out broken and short sounding. hehe... I can't help it.
Yes there are backstab bonus items in the game but thats not the point. People don't like that the only swings they get in the round are a hit or miss. So by replacing a single swing chance with up to 5 swing chances all with a bonus damage modifier in place it solves that problem. Giving you across the board a more accurate but potentially slightly weaker attack if you land only 1 swing in that round. Which at higher levels shouldn't happen much unless your using an extremely difficult weapon to bs with.
At the moment I was exploring a generalized fix for bs. I would agree though that each class could have a unigue take on bs and have specialties and special effects in it. However I would rather see stuff like that as bonus quests than the actaul general fix. If you undrstand what I mean.
BS attacks as I've written about them have been geared mainly towards pvp even though they still need to function in pve.
I haven't seen your friend
s theif and you fight slutfishy feel free to post some caps I'd be interested to see them.
When I sober up I'll come back and hopfully can think this out better but this is what you get for now. The bar life isn't aways easy on me :)....
you must be drunk ;)
for one, the surpirse "round" your referring too just sounds like more accruate surprise "bashing".
and two, I never said it was a generalized fix, i did imply a few times that it would be a "quest" thing.
You got to remember, the accuracy in greatermud is messed up.
any Bs'ing char i seen and played usually bs's at 99% at higher levels. so theres no need to make it "more accuracte"
Quote from: SluTFisHy on January 15, 2010, 12:24:30 PM
you must be drunk ;)
for one, the surpirse "round" your referring too just sounds like more accruate surprise "bashing".
and two, I never said it was a generalized fix, i did imply a few times that it would be a "quest" thing.
You got to remember, the accuracy in greatermud is messed up.
any Bs'ing char i seen and played usually bs's at 99% at higher levels. so theres no need to make it "more accuracte"
I'm not as drunk tonight I said it needs to be a generalized fix not you to clear that up. Though I'm trying hard to get there... As far as being drunk that is...
And Yes a surprise round would be more accurate but no it would not be like a bash as bash is a single damage modified swing. This would be a number of damage modified swings. Just imagine getting an entire round with some bonus damage tallied up and shown as a total.
As far as accuarcy goes I meant from level 1 not from level 50+ a fix like this needs to be fair across the entire level scope with potential for growth not just be suited for a single portion of the game.
Quote from: The Crazy Animal on January 16, 2010, 04:34:09 AM
And Yes a surprise round would be more accurate but no it would not be like a bash as bash is a single damage modified swing. This would be a number of damage modified swings.
ok your vague and makes not much sense.
I think you are confusing BASH with SMASH.
BASH is a FULL ROUND of swings. SMASH is a single modified attack. How long have you been playing mudd?
Quote from: SluTFisHy on January 16, 2010, 10:18:58 AM
ok your vague and makes not much sense.
I think you are confusing BASH with SMASH.
BASH is a FULL ROUND of swings. SMASH is a single modified attack. How long have you been playing mudd?
Umm ya I said I was drinking so deal with it. ;p Did you want an answer or did you want to wait till sunday or maybe monday when I sober up for the normal portion of the work week. I was trying to be polite and give you a speedy reply.
As for a full round of swings I meant that as not a reduced round of swings based on normal combat. I.e. Smash and Bash and the current bs method while being special attacks still reduce your round of swing chances from up to five down to one. Is that really that hard for you to figure out? I wasn't trying to be vague. I guess I was just overestimated your intelligence. I'm not trying to be mean (ok maybe I am and I'm taking my hangover out on you... so sorry) but The rest of my postings have been fairly clear on the system. So I really don't get where you think it even compairs to a surprise bashing which would be only a single swing chance with modified damage which is closer to the current method of BS.
As far as how long I've been playing mmud I was 13yo it was pre-mod one, pre-ninja and my first character was stupidly a halfling warlock. It was a competative strictly hand played pvp realm on a local area bbs and I got my ass kicked a lot. Really this stupid gypsy named DVS Mind kept stealing my glowing broadsword which at the time was still sold out of the mage spell shop in silvermere. I swear he must have rerolled me a good 10 times before I figured out what I was really doing. I use use to log-in via a 1200 baud modem connected to an amiga 2000 with a full 16mb of ram whens the last time you saw a system like that. I've been op-ing and editing since I was 20yo. You can now go look at my profile and do the math if your really that interested in the actual how long I've been playing. And yes I know thats too much information but I felt like ranting so again deal with it. ;p
lol crazy animal your a trip man ;)
well first..
Quote from: The Crazy Animal on January 16, 2010, 02:35:36 PM
As for a full round of swings I meant that as not a reduced round of swings based on normal combat. I.e. Smash and Bash and the current bs method while being special attacks still reduce your round of swing chances from up to five down to one.
Bash does not reduce tyour swings down to 1. It reduces your swings down by about Half speed. You can still bash 5x a round.
and second...
Quote from: The Crazy Animal on January 16, 2010, 02:35:36 PM
I use use to log-in via a 1200 baud modem connected to an amiga 2000 with a full 16mb of ram whens the last time you saw a system like that
You basically just named my first system i played mmud with ;) I have been playing since i was 11-12 yr old and im turning 26 this month so i guess around 15 years or so..
Yes,I remember playing by hand, when there was not really a "world wide web" yet and aol was the shit. 1200 baud modem i remmeber getting my 2400 baud for christmas and being excited to play in mmud on a faster connection.. i was a total nerd..so i feel ya homie ;)
Quote from: SluTFisHy on January 18, 2010, 02:45:09 AM
lol crazy animal your a trip man ;)
well first..Bash does not reduce tyour swings down to 1. It reduces your swings down by about Half speed. You can still bash 5x a round.
and second...
You basically just named my first system i played mmud with ;) I have been playing since i was 11-12 yr old and im turning 26 this month so i guess around 15 years or so..
Yes,I remember playing by hand, when there was not really a "world wide web" yet and aol was the shit. 1200 baud modem i remmeber getting my 2400 baud for christmas and being excited to play in mmud on a faster connection.. i was a total nerd..so i feel ya homie ;)
Crap maybe Its been a while since I bashed on a monster in a legit mmud at higher levels its inaccuracy alone never made me want to do it much. If its slower its slower I'm never one to say I can't be wrong. At any rate I'm hoping that you got what I was trying to say out of all that anyway. Rather then latching on to just the bash. I.e. hit chance per round. Other then the few places I test for diffrences on I haven't been playing much at all in the last year or so.
If you think 1200 was slow I still have a laptop in the closet with a 300 baud internal modem in it running the HP PAM OS it was a touch screen too. Windows hadn't even past version 2.11 yet. And Yep no WWW there was prodogy, AOL, and ooo I forget the third one that was really big.
Well happy b-day month I'll be 31 next month. Feel like trading I'll let ya pick up 5 years really cheap haha...
I'm older then both of you and the other one was CompuServe..
No need for so much complexity, Thief's just need combat 3 to be more balanced. Warriors need a higher exp table, or better would be reducing the rest. Melee combat is out of hand and has too much burst damage, but people like that so just give everyone more hps, and increase backstab damage.
Quote from: Thergin on January 20, 2010, 02:15:02 AM
No need for so much complexity, Thief's just need combat 3 to be more balanced. Warriors need a higher exp table, or better would be reducing the rest. Melee combat is out of hand and has too much burst damage, but people like that so just give everyone more hps, and increase backstab damage.
You make it a little over simplified increasing HP across the board will throw all the PVE content out of balance.
What balance? "Lets hope I dont get rounded"
Quote from: Thergin on January 27, 2010, 10:33:59 AM
What balance? "Lets hope I dont get rounded"
Player verse environment balance. I.e How easy or difficult the game is to play when you are simply out adventuring. If you raise the HP values or sharply increase a players ability to do damage then you make the game much easier. I.e. the PVE balance is shifted from normal to easy...
Any idea to fix backstab will need to take both PVP and PVE into account.
Could always do what DAoC did and use different formula's for PVP and PVE. Or just a blanket %dmg reduction on PVP.
Personally, I dont think raising the hitpoints 1-2 points per level per class would effect the game too much. On top of that a blanket dmg reduction of about 15% on pvp would even the playing field out fairly well.
It's a decent "temporary" fix.
Quote from: Darmius on January 27, 2010, 08:03:19 PM
Could always do what DAoC did and use different formula's for PVP and PVE. Or just a blanket %dmg reduction on PVP.
Currently MOBs don't use the same exact combat mechanics as players, so its already kind of different. (Mobs don't get real swings they use non-magical spells to fake the appearance of a players normal swings.) However from a game mechanics stand point both Vitoc and myself agree that we'd like to have NPCs and PCs interact in the realm in a nearly identical manner. So keeping it different would be detrimental to that long term goal. I'm sure the logic behind this isn't 100% clear at the moment but that is where we'd really like to see things go.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on January 28, 2010, 12:27:57 AM
Personally, I dont think raising the hitpoints 1-2 points per level per class would effect the game too much. On top of that a blanket dmg reduction of about 15% on pvp would even the playing field out fairly well.
It's a decent "temporary" fix.
A 1-2 HP per level gain would probably not produce a noticeable effect in PVP or PVE until it accumulated for 50 or so levels. However since it is also less then one to two swings worth of normal damage at any level along that course it hardly seems like an effective change. The type of change that I'm speaking of in terms of HP increases that would create an imbalance would be for example a flat +20 at say lvl 1. Basically If you can take any number of hp and put it on a character in an area appropriate for its level and can easy say it probably won't die now then that's bad for PVE balance. However I really don't think HP is the problem here rather its the damage.
Instead of using a blanket % method of reducing damage there are other ways to go about it that can be keyed in to balance in with the other combat game mechanics better. So reducing damage using one of these compartmentalized dynamic means could use something like:
Critical Hit Defense - Decreases the chance to be hit with a critical hit.
Critical Hit Damage Reduction - Decreases the damage dealt via a critical hit.
These types of damage reducing abilities could then be introduced on both armor and as a calculated character stat. I really do think that's two of the big combat abilities that is currently missing from the game.
Second I really do think players are getting too accurate at high levels. Which could be from AC and or Dodge being too low or from the ACC formula just having the wrong gain increase per level since this is predominately a higher level problem. Yes players should get better at swinging there weapon each level but they should also be getting better at avoiding being hit at the same time. Things that could help fix the avoiding being hit portion would be a level based AC blur effect where each level or each couple of levels you gain few points of base AC (ie AC that exists before equipping items.)
Quote
Critical Hit Defense - Decreases the chance to be hit with a critical hit.
Critical Hit Damage Reduction - Decreases the damage dealt via a critical hit.
Ohh goody resilience, if you can't fix it throw more variables at the problem. Okay it's not that bad of solution but it should be a last resort IMO. Major mud has too many layers of crap on top of crap that need to be fixed before more should be added. Actually DR could be replaced/change with resilience, and it would keep plate from being nearly invincible at low levels.
Quote
However from a game mechanics stand point both Vitoc and myself agree that we'd like to have NPCs and PCs interact in the realm in a nearly identical manner. So keeping it different would be detrimental to that long term goal. I'm sure the logic behind this isn't 100% clear at the moment but that is where we'd really like to see things go.
Building NPC's like PC's is a really good change and it will probably help close the gap between PVP and PVE. Yet you are going to end up re-writing all of combat with this change, and frankly with the development cycle... it's going to be forever. Don't get me wrong, it need to be re-done, but mud players are going to start dieing due to old age. %dmg modification would be a simpler implementation.
Quote
Second I really do think players are getting too accurate at high levels. Which could be from AC and or Dodge being too low or from the ACC formula just having the wrong gain increase per level since this is predominately a higher level problem. Yes players should get better at swinging there weapon each level but they should also be getting better at avoiding being hit at the same time. Things that could help fix the avoiding being hit portion would be a level based AC blur effect where each level or each couple of levels you gain few points of base AC (ie AC that exists before equipping items.)
I agree ACC formula's need to be balanced. But I don't agree with AC gains per level. Adding AC is going to just throw off ACC formulas even more. Maybe using level difference as an ACC modifier in pvp would be a better idea. Down side to this would be unlimitied pvp ranges, high level players would be near invincible. Yet it could be balanced with alignment hits, npc bounty hunters etc.
Quote from: Darmius on January 28, 2010, 06:28:55 PM
Ohh goody resilience, if you can't fix it throw more variables at the problem. Okay it's not that bad of solution but it should be a last resort IMO. Major mud has too many layers of crap on top of crap that need to be fixed before more should be added. Actually DR could be replaced/change with resilience, and it would keep plate from being nearly invincible at low levels.
LOL... Actually its just a couple of missing content control variables, I'd even suggest putting in similar ones for back stab too. It isn't and should not be thought of as a game engine fix though. As ability variables like these only allow you to fine tune game play via the content. Which can only address one portion of the 2 sided problem.
I'm not a huge fan of the current DR system either and personally if I were to change it to suit my own vision I would probably want to use a percentage reduction scheme with a max soak value rather then a straight value as it is now. So DR would be shown as something like 20%:10 where you would soak 20% of a hit up to the point of 10 damage. This would make it rather easy to design balanced armor. Since you could then proportionately adjust the max damage soak to fit with-in the damage ranges for a given level bracket. And at the same time remain very flexible in both low or high damage situations by adjusting the max damage soak and or percentage. As well as also allowing you to still express the old style of DR by using 100%:Value which is a good transitional factor to have.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by resilience. Would you like to explain it?
QuoteBuilding NPC's like PC's is a really good change and it will probably help close the gap between PVP and PVE. Yet you are going to end up re-writing all of combat with this change, and frankly with the development cycle... it's going to be forever. Don't get me wrong, it need to be re-done, but mud players are going to start dieing due to old age. %dmg modification would be a simpler implementation.
Actually it doesn't change as much for combat as you would think other then NPCs would now need to attack as players do. And all those formulas and methods are already in place for players. So a lot of the basic framework is already in place. So the big changes for mob combat would be in the logic method to sequence the attacks and spells i.e. the AI to control it. And on the data side creating the stats, stat increases per level and data structure to dynamically generate their spell lists. Once that happens though combat formulas would then work exactly the same for both PVP and PVE and any changes to those formulas would only need to be done once. Also from a content stand point its a much needed change since it would then enable us to start re-using mob instances across a broader player level range. That's something that would speed up content development and that is something that is still currently very outdated and tedious.
As far as %dmg modification goes it I still kind of think the larger portion of that issue revolves around the damage increase for crits rather than damage done via normal hits. So it might be a good place to start just by reducing that damage calculation.
Quote
I agree ACC formula's need to be balanced. But I don't agree with AC gains per level. Adding AC is going to just throw off ACC formulas even more. Maybe using level difference as an ACC modifier in pvp would be a better idea. Down side to this would be unlimitied pvp ranges, high level players would be near invincible. Yet it could be balanced with alignment hits, npc bounty hunters etc.
LOL Unlimited PVP ranges and they call me crazy...
Having an AC gain per level wouldn't change anything in the base ACC formula. This is because your ACC and Your ACC's miss percentage are two different formulas. If you have an ACC of 200 or 360 will still remain that exact value that no matter what your targets AC is. AC in terms of ACC is only used to calculate how often you should miss a given target.
Keep in mind the end result that is wanted here is to reduce the damage per round that a target player would take and that this effect is able to compensate for the the damage and ACC increases that is gained via leveling. I.e creating a effective counter balance for what I consider to be over bloated ACCs that are encountered at higher levels.
The gain in AC would just be the equivalent of some one putting on a piece of armor with a higher AC value. And this would actually be fairly easy to balance out and test for since its very easy to create a number of AC gauged rings to test it with. All testing really takes is taking two exact characters of a given level,race,class,encum and placing them in the arena and you fight them with no Armour and a non acc modified weapon. You record the base fight stats and decide a value to attempt to reduce the ACC by. Then by using the AC gauged rings you attempt to key in the amount of ACC you want to reduce via AC for that level set. Once the values have been keyed in all it takes is creating the formula.
And yes having an AC gain per level would actually provide you with a lvl difference based ACC modifier because AC is used to calculate your ACC's miss percentage based on your targets AC. So if you have a few levels worth of AC and ACC gain on your opponent that would be the level difference modifier. I.e You would appear to be slightly harder to hit and they would appear to be slightly easier to hit even using identical characters in all other ways but level.
The current PVE mob ACC values would however need to be re-adjusted slightly though to compensate which is kind of a pain in the butt. However that's a better option then to only make the "Phantom counter balance AC" work in PVP.
Quote from: The Crazy Animal on January 29, 2010, 02:34:34 AM
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by resilience. Would you like to explain it?
Resilience is a character attribute that reduces the chance to receive critical strikes or spell critical strikes, reduces the effect of mana drain spells, reduces the damage taken from critical strikes and spell critical strikes, and reduces the damage taken from players overall.
World of Warcraft skill - Resilience (http://www.wowwiki.com/Resilience)
Quote from: Darmius on January 29, 2010, 12:58:16 PM
Resilience is a character attribute that reduces the chance to receive critical strikes or spell critical strikes, reduces the effect of mana drain spells, reduces the damage taken from critical strikes and spell critical strikes, and reduces the damage taken from players overall.
World of Warcraft skill - Resilience (http://www.wowwiki.com/Resilience)
Ah ya I never got into wow its all graphical and stuff ;p...
The thing I don't really like about Resilience as they describe it is that has multiple functions combined into the the one ability. Its better from a balance stand point to have each one of the abilities separate and individually accessible. However I do really like that they increase the amount needed to get the same % value as level increases. Which is the type of integral counter balancing system that mmud really lacks for many of its formulas.
what is it about bses that need to be fixed? i dont really see anything wrong with them, other than that all these retards that make mystics or whatever dodge EVERYTHING just about
Quote from: ThunderGod on September 26, 2010, 07:36:16 AM
what is it about bses that need to be fixed? i dont really see anything wrong with them, other than that all these retards that make mystics or whatever dodge EVERYTHING just about
Backstabs were far inaccurate before some adjustments were made. The most recent adjustments brought bs acc to about 80% maximum. This still needs tuning, but is better than it used to be by far.
u max backstab %80 dumb
u backstab level 10 when u level 50 u backstab %100 not %80
u one level = 1/0 ac backstab u 10 level = 10/0 ac backstab
ac no help ac backstab dodge help ac backstab dr help backstab damage