Which classes perform well neutral? Do any classes excel as neutral?
I have this theory that neutral tends to get the shaft. How would life look if some(approx 1/3 of each) of the items defined as good only/evil only were changed to not evil/not good? Which items would work well for such a fix, and are their combos that would be excessively powerful?
About the only classes I play neutral are Warrior (PDB FTW!) and Mage (PRSL!).
Outside of those two IMO Neutral kinda gets the shaft through out the game.
Neutral is kinda shitty for almost all classes, with the two exceptions being rangers/druids. The PDB makes a neutral ranger a very good scripter in many of the dragons, while neutral druid has boudler, which is definately the best of the three offensive druid spells, as well as earthbind, which is also unique for a neutral druid. Warriors are in same camp as rangers, except they dont have mantle of the woodsman+resistance spells, which play a huge role in stacking resistances. The neutral quest ring sucks though, compared to the +5 dodge and large ac/dr for good, or the +1 max damage and 10% mana rgen for evil.
How about this, since you are considering making evil weapons "notgood" and good weapons "notevil" what does that leave neutral? "notgood" AND "notevil" ? good can be used as good and neutral, evil can be used as neutral and evil and neutral can be used as only what... neutral? ghey.
I think neutral quest weapons should be used under ANY alignment. good evil or neutral.. I think that would give neutral weapons a MAJOR benefit that being good or evil does not have and add a lot of balance to the neutral alingment.
Definately makes neutral something to be desired again ;) less alingment restrictions going neutral (considering being Neutral, SUPPOSED to be the easy way out anyhoo, this would actually make it easy)
Slutfishy has a good point there :)
I tend to play Neutral as a Druid or Ranger.. but evil or good for pretty much everything else. I think you'd have to tread very carefully if you were to make decisions on what a Neutral toon could use that's Good or Evil. You could make some hellacious combinations, especially as a Warrior (Nice +hp regen gear for neutral, then some evil gear for damage and some good gear to increase defense). I don't have exact combos in mind, but it'll be something fun to play around with later tonight if I get some time.
That being said, I think this is a good idea with a lot of possible merit. Can't wait to play around with it.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on March 03, 2010, 03:28:06 PM
How about this, since you are considering making evil weapons "notgood" and good weapons "notevil" what does that leave neutral? "notgood" AND "notevil" ? good can be used as good and neutral, evil can be used as neutral and evil and neutral can be used as only what... neutral? ghey.
I think neutral quest weapons should be used under ANY alignment. good evil or neutral.. I think that would give neutral weapons a MAJOR benefit that being good or evil does not have and add a lot of balance to the neutral alingment.
Definately makes neutral something to be desired again ;) less alingment restrictions going neutral (considering being Neutral, SUPPOSED to be the easy way out anyhoo, this would actually make it easy)
Are you referencing anything besides the 5th alignment quest items?
Also, forgot to ask earlier.. Are you considering making the earlier alignment quest items (1st, 3rd evil) wearable by Neutrals? Or just boss/chest-dropped items?
What about a class that can equip items regardless of alignment?
What about a class that cannot equip any alignment restrictive items, and had a special level 50 weapon?
Quote from: DeathCow on March 02, 2010, 11:42:32 PM
Which classes perform well neutral? Do any classes excel as neutral?
I have this theory that neutral tends to get the shaft. How would life look if some(approx 1/3 of each) of the items defined as good only/evil only were changed to not evil/not good? Which items would work well for such a fix, and are their combos that would be excessively powerful?
This entire idea is a complete ripoff of my mod. The Cow strikes again.
Neutral is very strong in a pvp realm. You have way more flexibility as far as attacking people, and more defence against beign attacked compared with evil.
I go all 1 hand bs classes neutral for this reason. Also the knockdown effect on petrified mace.
Quote from: Rorik on March 03, 2010, 06:39:15 PM
Also, forgot to ask earlier.. Are you considering making the earlier alignment quest items (1st, 3rd evil) wearable by Neutrals? Or just boss/chest-dropped items?
I wasn't thinking of any items in particular, although I wasn't planning on touching any quest items.
Quote from: schwagg on March 03, 2010, 07:30:45 PM
This entire idea is a complete ripoff of my mod. The Cow strikes again.
And who the fuck are you? Southern strikes again.
Quote from: DeathCow on March 04, 2010, 06:01:32 AM
And who the fuck are you? Southern strikes again.
Excuse me?
**Alignment Alterations
* The lines have been blurred a bit between the alignments. Spells and many items that give prev (protection from evil) have been changed from Good only to NotEvil. On the other side of the coin, a good amount of items/spells that were evil only have been changed to NotGood. This will give players more flexibility in shifting through different alignments, instead of being forced to stay at one alignment for the entire game.
Source: http://mmb.forumshq.com/index.php?topic=13406.msg117889#new **
This was posted nearly a year ago when I made the changes to my mod. If you're going to directly rip ideas off from my mod, at least give credit. See, unlike you, I actually HAVE a mod. I've worked on it for multiple years now. I've released a ton of info and done multiple testing sweep pushes. I've never once made it a point to make posts here advertising my mod or promoting it, but when you directly take the idea right from my knowledge base page, I think you ought to be at least posting the source of the idea.
This is completely different from when Southern Cross "invented dual wield" (workaround bullshit that people had been doing for years before SC, and an idea that existed years before MMUD), and frankly has absolutely no bearing on this conversation.
Nobody likes a plagiarist. Give credit where it's due.
I don't play on your bbs. And haven't read a thing about it. And you are doing the EXACT same thing SC did, cause I didn't know shit about your bbs. Quit being a fucking asshat.
what are the names of those bbs's ? or muds Rotting?
Quote from: schwagg on March 04, 2010, 09:57:32 AM
This was posted nearly a year ago when I made the changes to my mod. If you're going to directly rip ideas off from my mod, at least give credit. See, unlike you, I actually HAVE a mod. I've worked on it for multiple years now. I've released a ton of info and done multiple testing sweep pushes.
Quote from: schwagg on March 04, 2010, 09:57:32 AM
Nobody likes a plagiarist. Give credit where it's due.
Wow Schwagg, you really think highly of yourself. You actually believe that you, and *only you, could EVER possibly come up with an idea like that? I have been editing mmud since i was 16 and have already implimented that idea on a mmud with my buddy when i was like 19. So how am i supposed to believe that in no way you werent playing on my mmud at that time and, jacked the idea from me?
Deathcow said it, you are being an asshat,(my now new favorite word) if you want to find any excuse to promote your mod in the forums just put it in a seperate post, you ain't got to be a douche and accuse people of jacking your shit when noone gives a fuck about your shit.. Talking trash on forums is one thing, that i respect (it makes for fun reading), but just being a complete douche to someone just to be able to promote your mod? is a douche move.. total douche move.. don't even respond to this, you already stunk up this forum with vinegar you asshat.
Slight tweak that would make things a little bit more even:
1st. Change Irikani head to "Not good"
2nd. Change witchwood bracelet and the spell "prev" to "Not evil"
3rd. Add a couple of neutral only resistance items like a lim-5 belt that is +10 resist all and an unlim ring that is +5 resist all
Quote from: interchange on March 05, 2010, 12:57:09 PM
Slight tweak that would make things a little bit more even:
1st. Change Irikani head to "Not good"
2nd. Change witchwood bracelet and the spell "prev" to "Not evil"
3rd. Add a couple of neutral only resistance items like a lim-5 belt that is +10 resist all and an unlim ring that is +5 resist all
I am not seeing all the merit you see in these ideas for some reason.
I suppose when it comes down to it I could make neutral only items and add them to the game. But when it comes down to it, I don't like making items just cuz.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on March 05, 2010, 11:53:04 AM
Talking trash on forums is one thing, that i respect
You can do your best to berate me, but I'll stand by my post. When I see something that looks like bullshit, I'm going to call you on it. I'd say that's a hell of a lot more noble concept than your self-admitted one of "Trash talking on the forums is one thing that I respect".
You are a literal tool. Next time at least *TRY to give your post the feel of something other than a fourth grade poop flinging letter.
The real question is can we actually trust Deathcow, period?
After the whole thing on pvp, I'm inclined to say no we cant.
I will say that the alignment changes to typically good only items oon here isnt an original idea to either Mackerel or DC. Its something thats obvious to everyone that is even a little knowledgeable about the game. Neutral should be able to use both evil and good spells and items. We know its a bitch to stay neutral and only one class really should ever be neutral as the data files stand now (druid) plus perhaps one cleric with rod of might. Everyone else is better off good or evil, depending.
Even so, I dont know if DC is the right person to trust with a 'mod10' at all.
Quote from: schwagg on March 05, 2010, 05:27:42 PM
You are a literal tool. Next time at least *TRY to give your post the feel of something other than a fourth grade poop flinging letter.
The funny thing is, is you feel vindicated by this post, but the truth is, doesn't matter what you say nobody is stupid enough to believe your bullshit.
You think too highly of yourself and your a douchebag, I told you not to respond to my post as noone else wants to hear it.
But anyway, I am just curious. Deathcow are you really considering changing the 5th quest weapons and alignment gear to notgood, not evil, etc..
and if so, when you think?
I wouldn't change the quest items. I mentioned it because I had the idea pop to mind after reading the release notes and I hadn't had a chance to go through the database and hunt down the items I'd like to change. I had asked if anyone saw any problem with doing that in case there are OP combos that I hadn't forseen. One thing I certainly won't be doing is editting quest items to be usable by people that can't quest for them, or at least I'd need a really good argument to do that, because it seems a little off base to me. That being said I haven't even had a chance to look over the effects. This thread turned stupid so I'll look it over and get back to ya. If I like the way it looks I'll make an update export for it.
For the most part I've held off on doing any content changes because the realm is so broken as is. Its completely off base atm and I can't see any reason to try and test a change when its broken.
Atm I'm kinda at this point where I wonder if its worth struggling to get the game to be an exact copy of majormud anyway. We might as well just move toward the improved future.
If anyone care some of the ideas I'm currently looking at...reverting stat based accuracy to agility int charm, rather than str and agility. Removing Combat Level and replacing it with several different stats, basically a new stat for each of the equations Combat-Level shows up in. So you'd have a swing rate stat, acc stat etc. I just think this would give us a little bit more customization when it comes to classes, and maybe allow for some balancing without throwing out everything we know about the game.
Not that its really related but I've been working on an aggro system to replace the random chance or attack last system.
I'm warming more and more to this idea. I'm not exactly a gear wizard, but I thought it would just give too many options to the Neutral class.. but the more I play around with it, the more cool it seems. Yes, it does help being able to equip certain items like plat plate and combine it with an evil weapon (like brimstone hammer, hellblade or laen).. but not to the point of being overpowered. But that's just me playin around with setups after I should be in bed.. as with most things, I'm sure someone will find a loophole to make their char just ridiculous.. but I still think it'd be pretty cool.
Lol what is up with your karma hehe. Its not gonna be every item. Its just gonna be 1/3 to 1/2 of the items.
Is there any way we can remove that "You are too evil to perform this action!" from the game please.
that is the most rediculous concept ever to impliment into a game. How in the world can anyone be "too evil"
serial killers never stop and go "oh shit, wait, i already killed 5 people this week, fuck i cant kill again until after church on sunday"
yeah no... dont think so.. lol.. but anyway... yeah can we please do something about that?
Its an anti abuse protocol. We can change it from stopping the action to an instant kill sys lightning. Or ya know...something detrimental.
Quote from: DeathCow on March 05, 2010, 11:54:19 PM
Lol what is up with your karma hehe.
Slutfish.. he hits me about every day with negative karma on about every post I've made so far.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on March 06, 2010, 03:30:28 AM
Is there any way we can remove that "You are too evil to perform this action!" from the game please.
... yeah can we please do something about that?
How about this.
Jacked this from mudcentral..kinda
-220 <= Saint < -200 (EP * 2) {Changed to EP * 3}
-200 <= Good < -50 (EP * 2)
-50 <= Neutral < 30
30 <= Seedy < 40 (No EP )
40 <= Outlaw < 80 (No EP; Guards attack)
80 <= Criminal < 120 (No EP; Guards attack)
120 <= Villain < 210 (No EP; Guards attack)
210 <= Fiend < 300 (No EP; Guards attack)
300 <= Fiend < 999 (No Ep; Gods Strike with lightning(-1/3 max Hps) each time EPs gained, Bounty Hunters attack)
The final Fiend would be displayed in an even more bold color, the Bounty Hunters would be based on the players level and be extremely inconvenient. At 301 eps a bounty hunter would summon about every 699 minutes, and 999 eps a bounty hunter would summon about every 1 minute.
At 999 EPs the player simply doesn't gain anymore eps, but will likely be spending the better part of the next 39 days in a safe room.
Wow, how about getting my negative karma reset too? Rorik knocked me to -7. And I did not do all that karma to rorik on my own.
Quote from: DeathCow on March 06, 2010, 09:47:42 AM
How about this.
Jacked this from mudcentral..kinda
-220 <= Saint < -200 (EP * 2) {Changed to EP * 3}
-200 <= Good < -50 (EP * 2)
-50 <= Neutral < 30
30 <= Seedy < 40 (No EP )
40 <= Outlaw < 80 (No EP; Guards attack)
80 <= Criminal < 120 (No EP; Guards attack)
120 <= Villain < 210 (No EP; Guards attack)
210 <= Fiend < 300 (No EP; Guards attack)
300 <= Fiend < 999 (No Ep; Gods Strike with lightning(-1/3 max Hps) each time EPs gained, Bounty Hunters attack)
The final Fiend would be displayed in an even more bold color, the Bounty Hunters would be based on the players level and be extremely inconvenient. At 301 eps a bounty hunter would summon about every 699 minutes, and 999 eps a bounty hunter would summon about every 1 minute.
At 999 EPs the player simply doesn't gain anymore eps, but will likely be spending the better part of the next 39 days in a safe room.
This I like. It removes the restrictions on people who want to be uber bad while at the same time not giving them a free ride.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on March 06, 2010, 10:57:40 AM
Wow, how about getting my negative karma reset too? Rorik knocked me to -7. And I did not do all that karma to rorik on my own.
Rorik didn't give you -7 either.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on March 06, 2010, 11:12:19 AM
This I like. It removes the restrictions on people who want to be uber bad while at the same time not giving them a free ride.
Looks pretty good to me, too. Might get the people dependant on @evil a little antsy, though.. in order to please the masses, you might have to resort to @outlaw/criminal/villain. Or just go back to the old fashioned "find a Good/neutral NPC and attack the shit out of them". ;)
Quote from: SluTFisHy on March 06, 2010, 10:57:40 AM
Wow, how about getting my negative karma reset too? Rorik knocked me to -7. And I did not do all that karma to rorik on my own.
Heh, you think I'm the only person who doesn't agree with everything you have to say, or how you say it? I MAY have smited you once, Slutfish, but that would be it. The karma thing doesn't matter a whole lot to me.. it's the reason I didn't complain about you doing it, or ask for it to be reset. DC asked what was up with it, and I answered. If you're gunna cry about it, I don't care if Gardner puts is back to -20 or whatever. If people are going to base what they think of my opinion on something as fickle as that, I don't really care about that person's opinion.
Quote from: Rorik on March 06, 2010, 11:38:12 AM
Looks pretty good to me, too. Might get the people dependant on @evil a little antsy, though.. in order to please the masses, you might have to resort to @outlaw/criminal/villain. Or just go back to the old fashioned "find a Good/neutral NPC and attack the shit out of them". ;)
Unlike MajorMUD, the alignment change command on GreaterMUD is not simply adding evil points to your current total, we put eps to a specific amount. The @evil msg/resp I have on the non pvp realm will always put you at exactly 300 eps no matter what your alignment is when you request the change.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on March 06, 2010, 11:12:19 AM
This I like. It removes the restrictions on people who want to be uber bad while at the same time not giving them a free ride.
I can go ahead and design the bounty hunters. I was thinking 3-4 different ones per 10 levels.
So levels
1-10 would have 4 unique hunters.
11-20 would have 4 unique hunters.
21-30 would have 4 unique hunters.
31-40 would have 4 unique hunters.
41-50 would have 4 unique hunters.
51-60 would have 4 unique hunters.
61-70 would have 4 unique hunters.
71-80 would have 4 unique hunters.
81-90 would have 4 unique hunters.
91-100+ would have 4 unique hunters.
Now they should probably be worth reasonable exp, be able to move on any map(wanderer type) Also I'd guess that they should be able to unspawn after not having a target for so many minutes.
I'd guess that the god's lightning would prevent players from scripting them, because they'll always get an round in first otherwise the player will gain another could by engaging combat. Anything else that needs to be covered for this concept?
The alignment system is flawed and needs to be changed, currently:
To gain evil you must do evil actions
To gain good you must do evil
It should be:
Good does good things
Evil does evil things
neutral does nothing.
This way both good and evil are always being pulled to neutral, or 0.
The farther they are towards max evil/good the slower they fall to neutral. (By fall I mean the EP's over time check)
Good/Evil
Gain access to good/evil only items
Extreme ends of the scale they are attacked by themed NPCs (Bounty hunter/assassins)
Take alignment hits when killing their own alignment, mainly Bosses and PCs
Neutral
Less likely to be pvp'd
Can go into evil and good cities
Can kill evil/good "in moderation" without huge alignment hits
Quote from: Darmius on March 06, 2010, 08:15:24 PM
The alignment system is flawed and needs to be changed, currently:
To gain evil you must do evil actions
To gain good you must do evil
It should be:
Good does good things
Evil does evil things
neutral does nothing.
This way both good and evil are always being pulled to neutral, or 0.
The farther they are towards max evil/good the slower they fall to neutral. (By fall I mean the EP's over time check)
Good/Evil
Gain access to good/evil only items
Extreme ends of the scale they are attacked by themed NPCs (Bounty hunter/assassins)
Take alignment hits when killing their own alignment, mainly Bosses and PCs
Neutral
Less likely to be pvp'd
Can go into evil and good cities
Can kill evil/good "in moderation" without huge alignment hits
Uhg.
No. bad beavis.
Why? Good should be a choice just like evil. Not forced on everyone.
That doesn't ring the bell of fun for me..but isn't obeying the law good? Lets go with that.
Is it actually good, or just not being bad? Do no evil, nor any good, yet become the epitome of good. That is some failed logic.
Ahh.. the old "Is good more than the absence of evil?".. or "Is evil more than the absence of good?" philosophical debate.. or how about evil triumphing while good men stand aside and do nothing? I love the turns these threads take. O0 ::) ;D
Quote from: DeathCow on March 06, 2010, 09:47:42 AM
-220 <= Saint < -200 (EP * 2) {Changed to EP * 3}
-200 <= Good < -50 (EP * 2)
-50 <= Neutral < 30
30 <= Seedy < 40 (No EP )
40 <= Outlaw < 80 (No EP; Guards attack)
80 <= Criminal < 120 (No EP; Guards attack)
120 <= Villain < 210 (No EP; Guards attack)
210 <= Fiend < 300 (No EP; Guards attack)
300 <= Fiend < 999 (No Ep; Gods Strike with lightning(-1/3 max Hps) each time EPs gained, Bounty Hunters attack)
Don't like this.
Why should the game punish evil players but not good? The game shouldnt care if you are evil or good unless the balance between good and evil has been swayed towards good.
If there are gods striking down the evilest players, there should be evil gods striking down the good and saintly.
Quote from: kalus on March 07, 2010, 10:48:21 PM
Don't like this.
Why should the game punish evil players but not good? The game shouldnt care if you are evil or good unless the balance between good and evil has been swayed towards good.
If there are gods striking down the evilest players, there should be evil gods striking down the good and saintly.
I highly agree. From what i remember when the alignment quest system was integrated all the evil punishments were removed from the game. Why are we reimplimenting them? Noone is going to want to go evil anymore.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on March 06, 2010, 11:12:19 AM
This I like. It removes the restrictions on people who want to be uber bad while at the same time not giving them a free ride.
I also don't understand your statement of evil players getting a "free ride" Some of the best platemail gear weapons and spells are good only.
We already get guards attacking evil players. players goto jail. which really sucks and lasts like 15 minutes if your real evil.
This is a compromise. This would replace the current "too evil to perform this action". Either some of you responded to the thread without reading it, or are incapable of creating an argument that works for the thread at hand.
I'm going to move forward with this idea as well as have a new profile setting added. The new setting, Set Max Evil {ON|OFF} will prevent a player from surpassing 300 EPs when turned on. When off the player will be subject to these rules.
What items have you decided to change to not evil/good?
The alignment system needs pros/cons for deviating from neutral. Besides the good/evil only flags there are no pros, and only evil has to deal with guards. Don't get me wrong, the not good/evil flags are needed, but the balance is still crap.
Quote from: Darmius on March 08, 2010, 05:23:30 PM
What items have you decided to change to not evil/good?
The alignment system needs pros/cons for deviating from neutral. Besides the good/evil only flags there are no pros, and only evil has to deal with guards. Don't get me wrong, the not good/evil flags are needed, but the balance is still crap.
I think you're looking at this in a sorta f'd up way. Besides picking which items you have access to alignment means next to nothing. Evil has the advantage of being able to attack whoever they want, which is a HUGE advantage. Oh they have to deal with guards..La de fucking Da.
A good player can't attack ANYONE without losing access to their good restricted items/spells.
Neutral can kinda attack people, fortunately for neutral they don't lose much by going a little evil. Unfortunately for neutral they get next to no alignment specific gear.
I haven't gone through the item database yet to decide which gear can be made neutral compatible yet..I tried to have a discussion about it, but I got little input besides some blatent nonsense.
Quote from: DeathCow on March 08, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
I think you're looking at this in a sorta f'd up way. Besides picking which items you have access to alignment means next to nothing. Evil has the advantage of being able to attack whoever they want, which is a HUGE advantage. Oh they have to deal with guards..La de fucking Da.
Evil can attack but they also get attacked by other players. There shouldn't be random elements in the game attacking them... and if there is, there should be random evil elements attacking the good players too.
The only concession i'd be willing to make is to flag every area in the realm as good/neutral/evil. If you are good and are in an evil flagged area, there is a random chance for some sort of demon attack, hell smite, whatever, of varying strength depending on the difficulty of the area.
Very true. Being evil ANYONE can attack you without GAINING Any evil.. so uhh yeah.. Good players technically can have more free rain to kill evil players without losing anything to their alignment. Unfortunately Deathcow the more i look at this situation you are very biased. I usually agree with you guys and your outlook but.. not this time.. not even close.
Quote from: DeathCow on March 06, 2010, 09:47:42 AM
How about this.
Jacked this from mudcentral..kinda
-220 <= Saint < -200 (EP * 2) {Changed to EP * 3}
-200 <= Good < -50 (EP * 2)
-50 <= Neutral < 30
30 <= Seedy < 40 (No EP )
40 <= Outlaw < 80 (No EP; Guards attack)
80 <= Criminal < 120 (No EP; Guards attack)
120 <= Villain < 210 (No EP; Guards attack)
210 <= Fiend < 300 (No EP; Guards attack)
300 <= Fiend < 999 (No Ep; Gods Strike with lightning(-1/3 max Hps) each time EPs gained, Bounty Hunters attack)
The final Fiend would be displayed in an even more bold color, the Bounty Hunters would be based on the players level and be extremely inconvenient. At 301 eps a bounty hunter would summon about every 699 minutes, and 999 eps a bounty hunter would summon about every 1 minute.
At 999 EPs the player simply doesn't gain anymore eps, but will likely be spending the better part of the next 39 days in a safe room.
I really like this as a way to get rid of the stupidest message in the game.
I don't even agree with why it was put in, So What If they want to keep attacking people. It's a game with live people playing on the other end they usually all rebelled and gang up on the constant evil doer.
But on the to next point, I think also that this idea should be balance and works the same for Good also. Furthermore maybe even have different levels of Goods and at each level like evil does to also have same problems to if going to Evil towns and we do need more evil towns. Hoping Mod 10 has some and not just one maybe also add more to rhudaur which is more like a village not a town.
levels and names
Good = Seddy
Saint = Outlaw
Saintly= Criminal
Sainthood = Villain*
Godly= Fiend**
*Also maybe for both at level Sainthood and villain on they both get attacked at Neutral city guards???
**Once your at Godly as same with Fiend should get maybe fire from hell when u attack a evil doer and have Demons hunt you as would bounty hunters to Fiends..
Just like everyone Else looking for a balance on the Alignment system.
Quote from: DeathCow on March 08, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
A good player can't attack ANYONE without losing access to their good restricted items/spells.
This is a good point for a con as good, you can't attack other good people without a large penalty. It could also be an argument for changing the alignment system. Good provides a relative amount of safety from other good players. Yet anyone can become good by idling in the bank.
Quote from: DeathCow on March 08, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
I haven't gone through the item database yet to decide which gear can be made neutral compatible yet..I tried to have a discussion about it, but I got little input besides some blatent nonsense.
I like that, blatent nonsense. You want to make changes to a flawed system. You are going to get noise over the subject. The problem is trying to change one feature on a huge list of items. Where half those items are flawed or useless. It's a large undertaking. I'm sure a few items could be haphazardly changed with little impact.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, there are going to be a lot of changes that will effect this. After the core game mechanic changes are made. Classes and race are looked at, etc... Eventually all the items are going to need to be reviewed.
Quote from: Excarkun on March 09, 2010, 08:08:27 AM
levels and names
Good = Seddy
Saint = Outlaw
Saintly= Criminal
Sainthood = Villain*
Godly= Fiend**
*Also maybe for both at level Sainthood and villain on they both get attacked at Neutral city guards???
**Once your at Godly as same with Fiend should get maybe fire from hell when u attack a evil doer and have Demons hunt you as would bounty hunters to Fiends..
Just like everyone Else looking for a balance on the Alignment system.
I actually love this idea.
But in regards to Deathcow, Good players have protection from everyon pretty much, from good, neutral, and evil players. Anyone that attacks them gets LOTS of evil points.
Evil players have NO protection, from anyone. ANYONE, good evil and neutral, can attack without restriction to evil points.
good players usually choose to GO GOOD because they are probably not planning opn PVP'ing. Duhh. Evil players go evil, because they plan on pvping.. and if its stricly for a evil gear build.. then thats a sacrafice htey are making.. getting attacked by ANYONE and all gaurds everwhere. I think you should re-evaluate how your looking at this deathcow. ill say it once again, i still think your extremely biased on this.
but Excarkun, thats is a sweet idea, i like it.. alot. it adds "BALANCE".. everyone is 2 sides of the same coin.. how it should be.
Should there always be balance? How about the Role play element of it?
Traditionally its always Good Vs Evil, and in most cases Evil always get the shit end of the stick...
Evil wants to be evil, so the should always gain EP's for evil action
Good is supposed to fight evil, to why should they gain EP's for doing something Good is supposed to do? However if a good person does evil against nonevil then the penalty should be huge, as their is a "breech" of trust.
And as is said in the game, neutral is there to maintain the balance between good and evil...
So maybe another way to look at it, is penalties..
Good can go Evil, they can get Ep's by doing evil.. But if you are good aligned, you should start losing accuracy etc.. the more evil you get .That means no "cheating" and going evil so you can script Rhudar. On the other side of the coin, if you get your Ep's high enough, maybe there should be more accuracy / crit bonus's
The same would go for evil, the more evil, the more bonus. Being evil they should have bounty hunters etc.. Thats part of being "evil" is the risk that everyone is against you in one way or the other.
Neutral I guess. the closer you are to 0 EP's that is where you get your bonus. Start getting penalised for moving towards the too good / too evil side of things. Supposed to be maintaining balance.
As for Items... They are either good or evil, everything else is neutral... I'm not sure if in fantasy ever there has been a weapon for the fight again good/evil. There is always a price for sitting on the fence ;)