You notice 115 gold crowns, 527 silver nobles, brass zills, 3 waterskins, 24
rope and grapples, scroll of prot. from evil, gilded robes, silver bracelet,
log raft, 6 copper amulets, 2 glass keys, emerald, dirty parchment, silver
gloves, ancient scroll, ashwood staff, 2 starsteel greathelms, silverwood rod
here.
Also here: Will*, Teferi*, Angruin*, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian.
Obvious exits: north, open door south, northeast
Teferi is searching the area.
[HP=870]:a Will
*Combat Engaged*
Will moves to attack everyone in the room.
Will says "@kill Rage"
Angruin says (to Will) "{no - party defence disabled}"
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
amethyst guardian retches uncontrollably!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 17 damage!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 15 damage!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 20 damage!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 14 damage!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
amethyst guardian retches uncontrollably!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 7 damage!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 1 damage!
The amethyst guardian slashes you for 9 damage!
The amethyst guardian swings at you with their fine broadsword!
amethyst guardian retches uncontrollably!
The amethyst guardian swings at you with their fine broadsword!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 2 damage!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
amethyst guardian retches uncontrollably!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword!
amethyst guardian retches uncontrollably!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 6 damage!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword!
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 12 damage!
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
A massive thunderclap blasts you for 44 damage!
You are dazed by the blast!
You are stunned!
Will says "@kill Rage"
Will says "@kill Rage"
Will says "@kill Rage"
Will says "@kill Rage"
Will says "@kill Rage"
Will casts mend on Will!
Angruin says (to Will) "{no - party defence disabled}"
[HP=817]:
You notice 115 gold crowns, 527 silver nobles, brass zills, 3 waterskins, 24
rope and grapples, scroll of prot. from evil, gilded robes, silver bracelet,
log raft, 6 copper amulets, 2 glass keys, emerald, dirty parchment, silver
gloves, ancient scroll, ashwood staff, 2 starsteel greathelms, silverwood rod
here.
Also here: Will*, Teferi*, Angruin*, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian.
Obvious exits: north, open door south, northeast
[HP=817]:/Mahjing @wait (can't move)
--- Telepath Sent to Mahjing ---
Will moves to attack you!
[PVP detected! (11:16 pm)]
Angruin says (to Will) "{no - party defence disabled}"
[HP=817]:
You notice 115 gold crowns, 527 silver nobles, brass zills, 3 waterskins, 24
rope and grapples, scroll of prot. from evil, gilded robes, silver bracelet,
log raft, 6 copper amulets, 2 glass keys, emerald, dirty parchment, silver
gloves, ancient scroll, ashwood staff, 2 starsteel greathelms, silverwood rod
here.
Also here: Will*, Teferi*, Angruin*, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian.
Obvious exits: north, open door south, northeast
[HP=817]:gb {Being attacked by Will}
You are stunned!
[HP=817]:l Will
You are stunned!
Will moves to attack you!
[PVP detected! (11:16 pm)]
[HP=817]:gb {Being attacked by Will}
You are stunned!
Angruin sings the song of beauty to Angruin!
[HP=813]:
You notice 115 gold crowns, 527 silver nobles, brass zills, 3 waterskins, 24
rope and grapples, scroll of prot. from evil, gilded robes, silver bracelet,
log raft, 6 copper amulets, 2 glass keys, emerald, dirty parchment, silver
gloves, ancient scroll, ashwood staff, 2 starsteel greathelms, silverwood rod
here.
Also here: Will*, Teferi*, Angruin*, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian.
Obvious exits: north, open door south, northeast
[HP=813]:
You notice 115 gold crowns, 527 silver nobles, brass zills, 3 waterskins, 24
rope and grapples, scroll of prot. from evil, gilded robes, silver bracelet,
log raft, 6 copper amulets, 2 glass keys, emerald, dirty parchment, silver
gloves, ancient scroll, ashwood staff, 2 starsteel greathelms, silverwood rod
here.
Also here: Will*, Teferi*, Angruin*, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian.
Obvious exits: north, open door south, northeast
[HP=813]:
You notice 115 gold crowns, 527 silver nobles, brass zills, 3 waterskins, 24
rope and grapples, scroll of prot. from evil, gilded robes, silver bracelet,
log raft, 6 copper amulets, 2 glass keys, emerald, dirty parchment, silver
gloves, ancient scroll, ashwood staff, 2 starsteel greathelms, silverwood rod
here.
Also here: Will*, Teferi*, Angruin*, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian,
amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian, amethyst guardian.
Obvious exits: north, open door south, northeast
[HP=813]:a wi
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
The amethyst guardian slashes Will for 14 damage!
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian retches uncontrollably!
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian retches uncontrollably!
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
The amethyst guardian swings at Will with their fine broadsword, but he dodges!
amethyst guardian stares about blankly, drooling from the mouth.
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You are stunned!
You are stunned!
You are stunned!
You are stunned!
Will clobbers you for 45 damage!
Will clobbers you for 80 damage!
Will swings at at you!
You are stunned!
[HP=688]:a wi
You are stunned!
[HP=684]:a wi
Teferi moves to cast soul rip upon you.
Will moves to attack you!
You are stunned!
[HP=684]:a wi
You are stunned!
You are stunned!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You critically attack Will for 170 damage!
You lacerate Will wide open and blood gushes forth!
You are stunned!
You retch uncontrollably!
Will critically smashes you for 345 damage!
You are knocked off your feet, and land with a heavy thump!
You are flat on your back!
Will critically clobbers you for 303 damage!
Will critically crushes you for 329 damage!
You drop to the ground!
*Combat Off*
You have been killed!
You have been killed!
You have been killed!
If you are talking about the difference in dodge/accuracy between the two of you I think this probably factored into that
(http://images.quest-ware.net/ragewill.jpg)
So when can we see the player manager?
If testing continues to go well I'll have a new version ready tonight. I will let everyone know.
Need more testers?
So 100% dodge on a dwarf druid vs a witchy two levels above. You're really saying this is ok?? At that point why would anyone ever play a melee...
and
how about him hitting me for close to 1k?? 60% crit on a dwarf druid seems outrageous also...and this was not a lucky round, he does that all the time.
How about we throw in my 81/19 ac i had at the time, does that factor in somehow?
Something is off here....and it makes a class that CANNOT get increases to dodge or accuracy worthless. I'm pretty sure combat 5 and the AC were supposed to counter some of that.
I didn't say it was ok, I said that might be part of why it went down that way.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on July 25, 2010, 09:16:27 AM
If you are talking about the difference in dodge/accuracy between the two of you I think this probably factored into that
(http://images.quest-ware.net/ragewill.jpg)
Is q&d accuracy/crits not shown here?
Stat bonuses are not reflected in that display.
Sooooo.....is there a plan to fix this or do i have a char with combat 5 highest combat possible, at a higher level, that can't hit someone in pvp??? a dwarf druid even..
Is armor class working at all when people swing at me? Definately does not seem like it...i take more damage if i wear armor.
Negative Power Plane
You notice 1 gold crown here.
Obvious exits: northwest, southeast
The room is dimly lit
[HP=833]:nw
Negative Power Plane
You notice 1 gold crown here.
Also here: Will*, Angruin*.
Obvious exits: northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest, up, down
[HP=832]:a Will
*Combat Engaged*
Angruin is looking at you.
Will just left to the southeast.
[HP=832]:se
Negative Power Plane
You notice 1 gold crown here.
Also here: Will*, Angruin*.
Obvious exits: northwest, southeast
You swing at Will!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
Will just left to the northwest.
[HP=832]:nw
Negative Power Plane
You notice 1 gold crown here.
Also here: Will*, Angruin*.
Obvious exits: northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest, up, down
Will just left to the southeast.
[HP=846]:se
*Combat Off*
Negative Power Plane
You notice 1 gold crown here.
Also here: Will*, Angruin*.
Obvious exits: northwest, southeast
[HP=846]:l Angruin
[ Angruin ](-= Oblivion =-)
Angruin is a colossal, heroically proportioned Dwarf Bard with short dark-brown
hair and forest-green eyes. He moves with catlike agility, and is incredibly
charismatic. You are almost overpowered by him strong personality. Angruin
appears to be bright and has a worldly air about him. He is unwounded.
He is equipped with:
stone javelin (Weapon Hand)
feather-tipped hat (Head)
black dragon gauntlets (Hands)
bone ring (Finger)
gold jeweled ring (Finger)
black dragon boots (Feet)
crimson bracers (Arms)
lyrist's companion (Back)
bone necklace (Neck)
black dragon leggings (Legs)
shimmering sash (Waist)
black embroidered robes (Torso)
jeweled main-gauche (Off-Hand)
sunstone wristband (Wrist)
emerald-studded bracelet (Wrist)
skull mask (Ears)
head of the woodelf lord (Worn)
[HP=846]:nw
Will just left to the northwest.
[HP=846]:nw
Negative Power Plane
You notice 1 gold crown here.
Also here: Will*, Angruin*.
Obvious exits: northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest, up, down
Negative Power Plane
You notice 1 gold crown here.
Also here: Will*, Angruin*.
Obvious exits: northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest, up, down
[HP=845]:a Will
Will moves to attack you!
Will casts entangle on you, ensnaring you with powerful vines!
You are entangled!
Will moves to attack you!
You are entangled!
*Combat Engaged*
Will swing at at you, but you dodge out of the way!
Will smashes you for 81 damage!
You are knocked off your feet, and land with a heavy thump!
You are flat on your back!
Will critically clobbers you for 194 damage!
Will swings at at you!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
You swings at Will, but he dodges out of the way!
The disease dies down.
Will is looking at you.
Will moves to attack you!
Will critically smashes you for 186 damage!
Will critically crushes you for 209 damage!
Will clobbers you for 45 damage!
[HPs critically low! (06:25 pm)]
[Session ended (06:25 pm)]
Will critically crushes you for 293 damage!
You drop to the ground!
*Combat Off*
You have been killed!
You have been killed!
You have been killed!
Earthen Tomb
Obvious exits: up
Amour class does not prevent damage. It makes you harder to hit. A high accuracy build like Will has can overcome a witchunters AC. DR is what reduces your damage and you have very little DR last time I looked.
Will has an insanely high amount of dodge which is why you have so much trouble hitting him back.
The problems will be addressed, but even in regular mud I think the char Will has would probably smoke yours in PvP.
I have never seen the druid that could out-melee a witchunter. You must be confused. A druid needs trickery to take out a witchy, he shouldn't just be able to toe to toe him.
Druid out-melee a witchy...craziness...go research more
It's not exactly crazy. I've seen a Half Ogre Mage out-melee a Witchunter, both 50+ and the Witchy using his 5th quest reward. It all depends on the build and gear.
Plus, MUD's not really exactly intended to be a serious RPG... it basically boils down to who can apply the mathematics of the game in the most advantageous manner.
Let's look at this again. This is from the day of your original cap/post
(http://images.quest-ware.net/ragewill.jpg)
| Rage | Will |
| Armour Class | 32.5/3.8 | 41.6/9.7 |
| Acc | 5.0 | 44.0 |
| Dodge | 2.0 | 42.0 |
| Crits | 4.0 | 34.0 |
Wills character has you beat in every single stat there except combat. I'm not talking about beating by just a little, in every thing but AC he has more than 9 times the amount you do. He has 22 times more dodge than you.
I don't see why you don't think he should be able to mop the floor with you. Melee druids are awesome if built properly, I've seen them take down witchies, pallys, warriors, even mages.
That's me naked Gard.
Try it again with me fully geared like i was at the time.
How about you show stats that include everything? I am q&d with my spear, that's definitely not reflecting here.
Druid's don't crit 60% with TSM, i don't care if you have the best gear in the game there is usually a cap. They also shouldn't dodge 100%, again i don't care if you have the best gear in the game.
Talk all the stats you want, 60% crit and 100% dodge isn't right. It's not the stats I think are mistaken, I think it's the formula's. Dodge & crits BOTH are nowwhere near where they are in reg mud.
I can only display the information that is sent to my program. Stat bonuses are not sent so I can't include them in the display.
You also have to remember that he probably has every druid buff in the game running on him, along with any buffs that the 2 people who were with him could cast. Since there is no 10 spell limit (something I strongly disagree with for bless spells by the way) it allows your character to perform far better than regular mud allows.
Some may see this as a beneift, I see this as something that further unbalanced the combat system. But that's just my $0.02.
Does combat-5 give any accuracy or damage bonuses over lesser combat classes or does combat-5 simply make the character reach the qnd cap more quickly?
For example, if a HoG mage is +20 qnd with a club and a HoG witchy is +20 qnd with a club and both characters are naked, would average rounds be the same?
The responses on this post are just lame. This is a beta realm...for testing and finding problems. Things such as a druid dodging crazy amounts and out meleeing a witchunter.
Gard, your response of witchunters just cant win against druids is a bad one.
Rethink about the idea of what you're trying to accomplish with a beta realm and help fix the problem rather than just say "thats the way it is"
Ask yourself should a caster 3 class beat a class designed to kill casters???
Just curious on the topic - is there a combat penalty for dwarf not having 120 str swinging tsm? I believe that's the weap. Regardless there is something unbalanced there.
Quote from: Rage on September 09, 2010, 05:10:26 PM
The responses on this post are just lame. This is a beta realm...for testing and finding problems. Things such as a druid dodging crazy amounts and out meleeing a witchunter.
Thank god you were here to continue that trend!
Quote
Gard, your response of witchunters just cant win against druids is a bad one.
It is also a response that you completely made up.
Quote
Rethink about the idea of what you're trying to accomplish with a beta realm and help fix the problem rather than just say "thats the way it is"
Ask yourself should a caster 3 class beat a class designed to kill casters???
Everyone thinks that any event in the game that isn't in their favor proves that their character is under powered and blah blah blah. egocentric.. blahblahhdsa
Anyway..if you go back and look you just posted a cap and expected everyone to read it through your eyes. You didn't even say anything but HEY this seems broken! Well wtf, YOU ARE RIGHT..party defense should be enabled by default. :/
Are you thinking that a level 62 druid should never crit 3/3 swings? Are you thinking that when a druid attacks a WH that his crit rate should decrease? Dodge rate decrease?
WHs are aweful btw They have been since MOD..3? 4? They just don't excellent with the current endgame content.
Anyway..you're the on playing the WH, why don't you tell us what they need.
BAH!
Can we get some kind of acknowledgment that dodge (and the entire combat system for that matter ) is still seriously messed up? Even more so than regular mud, which is quite an achievement.
There are numerous captures in the bug reports section of mages, druids etc been basically unhitabble. Yet they seem to be ignored.
http://www.greatermud.com/forums/index.php?topic=2571.0
http://www.greatermud.com/forums/index.php?topic=2727.0
http://www.greatermud.com/forums/index.php?topic=2816.0
No man, combat is perfect?!?!?! Wtf game are you playing? Of course its not right.
Dodge hasn't been ignored its changed several times, its just not capping out correctly atm..I think.
Dodge is(in MMUD) exactly like AC except that it scales against ACC, while AC is linear.
Either way I've not tested dodge recently, it may be fine now, or it could still be broken..I dunno.
Quote from: kalus on September 09, 2010, 08:55:29 PM
Can we get some kind of acknowledgment that dodge (and the entire combat system for that matter ) is still seriously messed up? Even more so than regular mud, which is quite an achievement.
There are numerous captures in the bug reports section of mages, druids etc been basically unhitabble. Yet they seem to be ignored.
We've said, repeatedly, that the combat system is still messed up. And at least twice in this very topic it's been said by developers that dodge is not right.
So, once again:
COMBAT IS BROKEN. DODGE IS MESSED UP. DRUIDS OWN WITCHUNTERS EVEN WHEN IT WORKS RIGHT. WE WILL FIX IT AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
Can you hear me now? Good!
Thanks, I feel better now
Quote from: Gardner Denver on September 09, 2010, 09:26:33 PM
We've said, repeatedly, that the combat system is still messed up. And at least twice in this very topic it's been said by developers that dodge is not right.
So, once again:
COMBAT IS BROKEN. DODGE IS MESSED UP. DRUIDS OWN WITCHUNTERS EVEN WHEN IT WORKS RIGHT. WE WILL FIX IT AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
Can you hear me now? Good!
CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY?
I think the point that Rage is trying to make is that a combat-2 class (I think Druid is combat-2?) is out-meleeing a combat-5 class.
However, there are a few points to consider:
1. Will was pretty much 10-spelled with druid/priest/bard buffs, should blesses make druids better combatants than unblessed witchunters -- who am I to say? Maybe give witchhunters the ability to de-bless targets to level the playing field (like the entrance to fallen angel/dark mage/zanthus etc.)?
2. My understanding is that combat-5 has NO BENEFIT over combat-1, 2, 3 ,4 EXCEPT that they reach the qnd cap faster. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I believe that the combat ranking system needs to adjusted .. give combat 5,4,3 etc. crit/acc/dmg bonuses/penalties based on the tier.
3. (This is a bit of an aside) Under current game settings, magic users own non-magic users. I think sleep, and stun need a diminishing returns component. If a mage wants to sleep someone for 1 round...fine. But to keep someone perma-stunned based on timing is ridiculous. There should be a formula that makes it more difficult to repeatedly sleep/stun someone based on MR and recent successful sleep/stuns.
Right now I would argue that witchhunters are pretty unplayable because they really do suck at high levels. I genuinely doubt it is the goal of the developers to sustain an unplayable class so my thoughts above are just suggestions to improve witchies lest no one play them again.
~Cornellian
Quote from: Prescience on September 10, 2010, 08:42:52 AM
1. Will was pretty much 10-spelled with druid/priest/bard buffs, should blesses make druids better combatants than unblessed witchunters -- who am I to say? Maybe give witchhunters the ability to de-bless targets to level the playing field (like the entrance to fallen angel/dark mage/zanthus etc.)?
Eh..he was at +34 crits in the screenie from gardner...3 swings 3 crits..Shrug. I don't think its that outrageous that it happened...
Quote
2. My understanding is that combat-5 has NO BENEFIT over combat-1, 2, 3 ,4 EXCEPT that they reach the qnd cap faster. Please correct me if I am wrong.
You're wrong
Quote
I believe that the combat ranking system needs to adjusted .. give combat 5,4,3 etc. crit/acc/dmg bonuses/penalties based on the tier.
It doesn't need to be changed, at least not based on *this*
Quote
3. (This is a bit of an aside) Under current game settings, magic users own non-magic users. I think sleep, and stun need a diminishing returns component. If a mage wants to sleep someone for 1 round...fine. But to keep someone perma-stunned based on timing is ridiculous. There should be a formula that makes it more difficult to repeatedly sleep/stun someone based on MR and recent successful sleep/stuns.
Basically any spell with a duration that is evil in combat should be automatically resisted if it already is in effect.
Quote
Right now I would argue that witchhunters are pretty unplayable because they really do suck at high levels. I genuinely doubt it is the goal of the developers to sustain an unplayable class so my thoughts above are just suggestions to improve witchies lest no one play them again.
~Cornellian
WHs are a mediocre class, They are not the worst class in the game by far, and they have unique abilities. They are completely playable at every level range in the game and even competitive during a large range of these levels.
Without changing WHs at all they would be more useful simply by increasing the frequency of spells used by monster or by increasing the damage of spell casters.
A great deal of their *eh* ness is content based. Towards end game, however, they tend to cap out their capabilities and other less melee minded classes catch up...and surpass even because they swing better weapons.
IN mmud a WH can actually swing around into the extreme damage range at endgame levels by switching to a 5 swing bash with some of the larger weapons, something other classes cannot do.
'Eh..he was at +34 crits in the screenie from gardner...3 swings 3 crits..Shrug. I don't think its that outrageous that it happened...'
I am not arguing that it is outrageous that it happened, I am asking if class-balance between witchies and druids (or other spellcasters) needs to be reviewed. Again, a buffed druid can outdmg and kill an unbuffed witchie in hand-to-hand combat. Is that fair? It might be, but it also might need to be tweaked.
'You're wrong'
Can you elaborate? If I have a HoG mage that is qnd with a q-staff and a HoG witchie that is qnd with a q-staff and both are the same level, will they do equal avg rounds or does the witchie have an advantage of which I am unaware?
'Basically any spell with a duration that is evil in combat should be automatically resisted if it already is in effect.'
That is fine, but mages/bards and can time it such that they recast the spell as soon as the duration is over and before the next combat-round begins. Thus a player becomes perma-stunned and unable to fight back. I think a diminishing returns element needs to be added to prevent the above scenario from occurring as often as it does.
Hehe..here's some ancient shit...I don't think these are real accurate..but EH..combat level is used in ACC
player->dodge =
( ( ( ( 15 * player->dodge2 ) +
( abs( 2 * player->agility + player->charisma - 150 ) / 4 ) +
( 2 * player->agility + player->charisma - 150 ) / 4 ) + 1 ) *
( 50 + player->level ) / 100 );
Uh.....rofl.
player->acc =
( ( player->combat - 1 ) * 5 ) +
( player->combat * player->level / 5 ) +
( ( 2 * player->agility + player->intellect - 150 ) / 2 );
haha...this is str then agi now. I think combat is Combat+2..so a hunter is (7-1)*5=30..
Uh...I'm not sure how well general resistances are working. I've been pvping for 16 yers now...timing spells like stun or entangle has also been a tactic, it takes skill to pull it off though, and its hardly perfected. Except by me.
And this..business
QuoteAgain, a buffed druid can outdmg and kill an unbuffed witchie in hand-to-hand combat. Is that fair? It might be, but it also might need to be tweaked.
What actually being complained about is that Wills MAXIMUM damage was more than Rage's MINIMUM damage. If they wanna go stand in the arena and swing at each other for awhile we might prove a problem. A snipet of what appears to be the extremes doesn't warrant this conversation. I don't play a druid, or a hunter. I've no idea what goes on in your day to day in gmud...
So really why are the people who are involved here asking me if WHs need to be fixed...why don't you figure out what your grief is and tell us whats going on.
BAH!!
Druids are one of the strongest classes in pvp.
You are trying to balance 190% exp table vs 130%?
Witchunters are missing good nonmagic item selection. All other classes got stupidly powerfull items and witchys got close to nothing.
I was under the impression that combat class 1-5 did effect accuracy. Witchunter vs Mage swinging same weapon max qnd 5 swing, should have accuracy differences.
Combat does figure into the formula, but high strength and +acc items can overcome the combat bonus easily.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on September 10, 2010, 11:01:01 PM
Combat does figure into the formula, but high strength and +acc items can overcome the combat bonus easily.
Yeah, that is the part I would argue needs review. In my opinion, witchunters should not be able to be out-damaged by pure spell-casters in melee combat.
From what Gardner posted, it sounds like a priest/Druid wielding a stormhammer with +acc items can easily outdmg a witchie (both unblessed).
If that's the case, why would anyone want to play a hunter? My $0.02.
Quote from: Prescience on September 12, 2010, 01:54:29 PM
Yeah, that is the part I would argue needs review. In my opinion, witchunters should not be able to be out-damaged by pure spell-casters in melee combat.
From what Gardner posted, it sounds like a priest/Druid wielding a stormhammer with +acc items can easily outdmg a witchie (both unblessed).
If that's the case, why would anyone want to play a hunter? My $0.02.
If you go to majormud and make a combat build druid you can get the same results ya know. I've seen some fairly impressive melee druids over the years.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on September 12, 2010, 02:23:25 PM
If you go to majormud and make a combat build druid you can get the same results ya know. I've seen some fairly impressive melee druids over the years.
I know that you're not trying to make the argument that regular majormud is perfect and in no need of revision :P
Combat Druids should be a feasible build but I don't think they should be able to out-damage a similar level, highly geared hunter. Combat-5 vs Combat -2 seems like a pretty big difference.
Quote from: Prescience on September 12, 2010, 02:57:02 PM
I know that you're not trying to make the argument that regular majormud is perfect and in no need of revision :P
What?????? MajorMUD is not perfect?????? How DARE you suggest such a thing is possible!