Am I right in reading MME when it says a mob has an 85% follow, that's a new calculation for every room, right?
If that's true, there's a 2x10-4 chance it'll follow 50 rooms. I had a mermex hunter follow me at least that far with never being in the same room as me. That's ridiculous. I know I can't be the only one who thinks the new follow rubric is broken.
Gone are the days where you can just turn mega on and go. Try typing for yourself for a change.
But Seriously. I think it livens the game up, and keeps us on edge. You never know when I've stacked a room for you on your way somewhere. Cuz I love to see deathpiles as I run around.
Quote from: anjinsanus on January 19, 2014, 12:00:03 AM
Am I right in reading MME when it says a mob has an 85% follow, that's a new calculation for every room, right?
If that's true, there's a 2x10-4 chance it'll follow 50 rooms. I had a mermex hunter follow me at least that far with never being in the same room as me. That's ridiculous. I know I can't be the only one who thinks the new follow rubric is broken.
I've not logged into the realm at all in a long time, but I'm understanding that the chance to follow just fires off every round...off into oblivion. It is also my understanding that isn't how the mechanic was intended to work. Neither method is really true to the way mmud handles this, but mmud's handling of this is bugged because it relies on a 'is_monster_active' call that can't possibly work as it is intended to work. I don't really know how vitoc has this setup, but it can be fixed without much issue and used for various other things like normal room type rgen, monster's triggering scatter item, and the more advanced follow routines and non-standard combat ai's used by a few creatures in mmud.
These follows need to be addressed ASAP.
Also here: fat winged demon, large dwarf warrior, fat dwarf warrior, fat winged demon, fat rotting monstrosity, large rotting monstrosity, tall dwarf warrior, large rotting monstrosity, short dwarf warrior, tall dwarf warrior, fierce
dwarf warrior, small winged demon, happy dwarf warrior, short dwarf warrior, angry rotting monstrosity, small dwarf warrior.
Either intentional or unintentional griefing, I don't know but this crap just won't work.
Its my understanding that witht he current setup this will happen if you run anywhere without stealth.
I am a little sad that Gardner hasn't weighed in on this. Surely there must be some sort of calculation he could point to and say why it's doing this crap.
My understanding is that each time the mob makes a roll to see if it will follow or not. The mobs listed in the example here all have high follow rates (75% or higher) so they are far more likely to hunt you to the ends of the earth. There are other factors that come into play but I'm not going to discuss them in the forums.
What I suspect is happening is that when the mob says "No I'm not going to follow" that it's not forgetting about you and the next time it rolls a "Yes" it takes off after you again. I'm only guessing and I'm not sure if this mechanic is correct or not. I'm thinking that it is not correct.
That goes back to my original calculation, then. Even with an 85% follow chance, that number gets very insignificant after a few rooms: 38% after 5 rooms, 17% after 10, 3% after 20, and so on. Is it rolling its 100-sided die every time I move to a new room, regardless of whether we're adjoining, or rerolling every round, every computer cycle, every time the Seahawks win in a controversial fashion...
I believe they've also changed it from how MMUD works, in that the monsters actually track you. Hence why you can not be in a room with a mob and after a while it will catch up and find you.
So here's the result of this nonsense. Keep in mind this has been cleared out a couple of times and it keeps coming back.
Scorching Desert, Small Pyramid
White sand dunes sprawl off in all directions here, making navigation
confusing as there are no clear paths or identifiable markers. The heat here is
intense, and when combined with the occasional harsh bursts of wind, parches
the throat and sears the skin. To the east, a small pyramid squats in the
desert like a brooding toad. A large square opening at its base leads inside.
Also here: big dustdevil, nasty giant scorpion, nasty giant scorpion, nasty
giant scorpion, large giant scorpion, big giant scorpion, giant scorpion, small
giant scorpion, giant scorpion, giant scorpion, fierce giant scorpion, giant
scorpion, big giant scorpion, giant scorpion, big giant scorpion, small
dustdevil, small giant scorpion, large giant scorpion, big giant scorpion, big
dustdevil, nasty black asp.
Obvious exits: east, northwest
Ok, seriously, how am I the only guy railing about this? I got followed, while sneaking, by mobs who wouldn't attack me. I didn't break sneak, and they still followed. Tell me this is how it's supposed to work, Gard.
I don't think anyone has suggested this is how its suppose to work.
Well we know that it's not correct. Gard may be correct in what he thinks, I have thought the same thing. Each time you come across and enemy, it will roll that "should I follow" formula then does the same thing on the next player but it still remembers you going through. My question is: If you have a Mage and you make a day of it to go around and clear all the stacked rooms... is that technically abusing a bug or is that a random act of kindness? My second toon is going to be a Mage is why I am even asking this question. I want a roomer anyways, but it will also be nice to not get dropped in a room full of mobs while I'm afk.
So... would that be abusing a bug or no?
How about after every room, the follow % gets increased, e.g. by half it's distance from 100% from previous step.
For example
80% 90% 95% 97.5% 98.75% = cumulative follow of 65.9% after 5 rooms
60% 80% 90% 95% 97.5% = cum 40%
40% 60% 80% 90% 95% = cum 16.4%
Set follow speed at medium enc equivalent and retrace steps back after 20 minutes.
Quote from: Silvix on January 29, 2014, 10:53:09 AM
Well we know that it's not correct. Gard may be correct in what he thinks, I have thought the same thing. Each time you come across and enemy, it will roll that "should I follow" formula then does the same thing on the next player but it still remembers you going through. My question is: If you have a Mage and you make a day of it to go around and clear all the stacked rooms... is that technically abusing a bug or is that a random act of kindness? My second toon is going to be a Mage is why I am even asking this question. I want a roomer anyways, but it will also be nice to not get dropped in a room full of mobs while I'm afk.
So... would that be abusing a bug or no?
Stacking the rooms is a bug, being kind enough to cllear them is not. Doing both is a no no.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on January 29, 2014, 01:04:33 PM
Stacking the rooms is a bug, being kind enough to cllear them is not. Doing both is a no no.
::) ::) ::) ::)
In mmud, there is a mob_has_target routine..which is used for a lot of different things and its far from perfect..its has exploitable bugs in it. I don't know what other people called this, but I called it perfect walking, where you'd manipulate the system and be able to move from one place to another without seeing a combat round and leave monsters in w/e room you desired. I don't think its worth emulating mmud's system so much that these type of behavior works on gmud, but there are a few things we could pick up. A monster in mmud only moves when it has a target. If its target is not in the current room, it will do nothing if there are 0 exits, leave the room if there is 1 exit, if there are 2 or more exits it will check to see if the player was in their current room in the players last 20 rooms, if it was it will roll follow% and on pass follow the players path if the player was not in the monsters room(in his last 20 movements) the monster will take a random exit. This behavior continues until the monster no longer has a target. A monster will lose there target after 6 unanswered round. The 6 round counter resets if combat fires or if the monster sees the player after its move(or if when it chks to see if it moves the player is in the current room). When it comes to following there are 3 types of monsters. Solo, Leader, and Follower. Solo monsters always make their own follow rolls and always act according to standard movement rules. Leader and Followers are special cases if they are in the same room as each other. Followers don't roll on their own and instead they use the leader's roll to decide if they follow basically the leader rolls like a solo would and if any leader leaves the room, the followers go with him...any time a leader leaves the room..followers go with them. If there are two or more leaders only one leader needs to make this roll for followers to go so if one of the leaders fails it will stay behind but all of the followers and the leader that past will go. Monsters can actually have multiple chances to move per round. Any time their target leaves the current room they can attempt to follow and when the monster movement phase happens which is 2 second after the combat round fires.
The way monsters acquire targets is kinda bugged in mmud, which is why attack last works.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on January 29, 2014, 01:04:33 PM
Stacking the rooms is a bug, being kind enough to cllear them is not. Doing both is a no no.
Ok good. I already knew that purposely stacking them is against the rules was just asking about clearing them.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on January 29, 2014, 01:04:33 PM
Stacking the rooms is a bug, being kind enough to cllear them is not. Doing both is a no no.
I can see how stacking a room is a 'bug', but how is clearing them a bug?
As far as DC's exhaustive explanation, it seems like a lot of coding, trial and error, but fairly decent. Would it be easier to just swipe the follow % clean after every room? 90% to follow east, fired. e^M 90% follow north, no fire, end. Seems like you could code a more 'realistic' methodology using what you got
My dad passed away on Saturday morning. It's been a roller coaster of flights, driving, emotions, and grieving. I'm flying out again tomorrow for the service on Friday morning, but likely won't get anything done this weekend. Give me a week or two please and I'll take another stab at this.
.... I fear that day Vitoc. You have my deepest sympathies
Quote from: Vitoc on January 29, 2014, 08:05:48 PM
My dad passed away on Saturday morning. It's been a roller coaster of flights, driving, emotions, and grieving. I'm flying out again tomorrow for the service on Friday morning, but likely won't get anything done this weekend. Give me a week or two please and I'll take another stab at this.
I'm sorry to hear about your loss, Vitoc.
Quote from: Torque on January 29, 2014, 08:02:25 PM
I can see how stacking a room is a 'bug', but how is clearing them a bug?
As far as DC's exhaustive explanation, it seems like a lot of coding, trial and error, but fairly decent. Would it be easier to just swipe the follow % clean after every room? 90% to follow east, fired. e^M 90% follow north, no fire, end. Seems like you could code a more 'realistic' methodology using what you got
He didn't say clearing them is a bug... He is saying that intentionally stacking rooms just to clear them (and make massive exp doing so) is against the rules.
Quote from: Torque on January 29, 2014, 08:02:25 PM
I can see how stacking a room is a 'bug', but how is clearing them a bug?
As far as DC's exhaustive explanation, it seems like a lot of coding, trial and error, but fairly decent. Would it be easier to just swipe the follow % clean after every room? 90% to follow east, fired. e^M 90% follow north, no fire, end. Seems like you could code a more 'realistic' methodology using what you got
The only reason I'd really care about how this works specifically is because this follow system is vital to properly emulating normal type room rgen. If we don't want normal type rgen, or want to do something then it probably doesnt matter to much. Also if the game was keeping track of monsters with a target we could probably use that same systemt to implement scatter items.
Quote from: Silvix on January 29, 2014, 10:24:32 PM
He didn't say clearing them is a bug... He is saying that intentionally stacking rooms just to clear them (and make massive exp doing so) is against the rules.
Ahh, I see it now! I don't know if I agree that that is an exploit. You still have to survive a round possibly of a room full of baddies, and also you have to figure out how to collect them into one room. If you write a script to make that happen, then I think you deserve to make it automated, since you have the proper defense capability and offense capability in the first place On top of that, regens are limited anyway -- you can only get so much from an area, regardless if you killed 300 giant war dogs in one blow. Also, can you imagine the field day I would have on a PVP realm and I saw someone doing this?
Quote from: Stalkerr on January 30, 2014, 12:44:21 AM
... this follow system is vital to properly emulating normal type room rgen.
I think 'vital' is the incorrect word here since regen and follow technically have nothing to do with each other. Blending the topics: I have to make assumptions, because 'normal type room rgen' is ambiguous. You are saying that if monsters get drug off their path and away from their lair, rgen will not be 'normal type'. This I have to disagree with because if you kill those monsters, they will still spawn in their original lair.
Quote from: Torque on January 30, 2014, 01:10:03 AM
I think 'vital' is the incorrect word here since regen and follow technically have nothing to do with each other. Blending the topics: I have to make assumptions, because 'normal type room rgen' is ambiguous. You are saying that if monsters get drug off their path and away from their lair, rgen will not be 'normal type'.
(http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/jtv_user_pictures/chansub-global-emoticon-c8a77ec0c49976d3-22x30.png) I can't tell if you are being a troll or just outright have no idea what you are talking about.
Oh, I can see why you are saying things that don't make sense now, you simply don't understand. I'm sure you've got to have some friends that can help explain it to you, right
Weren't you two pals at one point? /popcorn
they are too much alike to be friends, the difference being DC is actually an intelligent guy he just wants people to tell him it too much. Torque is not intelligent and usually full of bullshit but still begs for everyones approval.
There isn't really any reason to derail this convo any further.. so to recap
Current follow system was a nice idea but either has some coding errors or wasn't properly thought out or a combination of the two. So it needs to be reworked. Its my suggestion that this is done parallel to normal type room rgen if we want ours to appear to function the same as majormud because the two are deeply embedded within each other. Its possible that we'll need to rework how monsters decide current targets in order to do this, which may mean we can/should look at how player can manipulate this system for tanking purposes.