Paradigm MUD Forums

GreaterMUD Discussion => Balance Analysis => Topic started by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 28, 2016, 06:08:07 PM

Title: Let's get this started!
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 28, 2016, 06:08:07 PM
Great news!  Vitoc has agreed to allow me access to the GMud dats so we can finally fix some of these long-standing bugs and balance issues.  Take some time to read through other forum posts in this forum, as well as any other forum, and push those conversations that you think are relevant back to the forefront so we can get a broad spectrum of everyone's ideas for fixing the realm. 

Please leave your "this is BS" and "Make Thieves invincible" comments to another forum, because I don't feel like weeding through your tears to get to the valid comments.  Serious comments here only please, or you will be denied access to this forum, and your future comments will not be heard. 

Any opinions you have on balancing issues are valid, let them be heard here and they will be taken into consideration.  This will not be a "majority rules" type of thing, because I'm only going to do this once!  So let's make sure we do it right the first time!!

After all bugs are taken care of and the balancing issues are acceptable, the realm will undergo a reset and we'll start from there.  After the reset, I will begin development on the first GMud content update in a number of years.  The initial content update will include a few new areas, as well as tidying up some existing areas to make them more useable as scripting areas.  Shadowmere is at the top of the list, as EVILS need a place to feel welcome!!

Regards,

Bane
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: y2duhh on December 28, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
any chance to bring back QnD?
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 28, 2016, 06:50:26 PM
Anything is possible, and I like the idea.
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Fury on December 28, 2016, 07:01:19 PM
25% less damage spellmod, Q & D back, I personally don`t like auto-regen rooms, makes to easy. 15% hang penalty engadged. weapons more "Elementaly complxed" ie) Sunsword hits ice golems 25% more dmg.) Tracking limited 50% than current. **SUICIDE PASSWORD SET IN PLACE*  Nobody should have to worry about a friend turning on them and getting rolled. A/C structured slightly lower for plates, or better for leather/cloths.    I`m sure this is overboard and will strike
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 28, 2016, 07:26:04 PM
I like all these ideas.  Obviously, there will be some type of collective bargaining on what makes it in and what doesn't.  Sometimes, it will be majority rules, other times it will be done for the better of the realm.  But these are all good discussion points.

I'm going to stop replying to all posts so as not to overwhelm the forum.  But, I will be reading them all, so please keep them coming.
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: IllIlIIllIl on December 28, 2016, 07:41:53 PM
Smash- Expected Behavior: Hold Person, less AC for a few rounds. 
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: y2duhh on December 28, 2016, 09:11:12 PM
Can I suggest you create a new Topic or category or whatever its called for this on the forums and a new thread for every idea you like so the idea itself and can be hashed out without it getting confusing over one thread with everything. Make it so you alone can only post new threads and we can only reply to them.
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Blake on December 28, 2016, 09:14:01 PM
1. The 5th evil mage spell, necromantic bolt, is broken.  It fires in two parts - the first is the cast damage spell component, attack type normal.  The second part or EndCast is meant to be a DrainLife spell.  Unfortunately these two pieces are reversed, so if someone is holding a copper cross or the large silvery cross - something that negates draining, it doesn't prevent the EndCast, it prevents the normal damage spell component.

2. Eliminate lawful dwarven guards completely.  They can protect themselves and others (King Kuldar, Gudruk), but they need to be neutral.

I've heard the horror stories about shitbags who stack the 3rd evil quest teleport room with 50 dwarven guards... you can't even attack them first because you would take too many eps.

http://www.greatermud.com/forums/index.php?topic=4041.msg24409#new

3. Prev stack.  I see someone else talking about reducing plate or increasing leather - that's a bad idea.  Prev, and +prev items, should be worth half of what they are.  Perhaps a stack cap? 
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Greater on December 28, 2016, 09:32:44 PM
Quote from: Blake on December 28, 2016, 09:14:01 PM
1. The 5th evil mage spell, necromantic bolt, is broken.  It fires in two parts - the first is the cast damage spell component, attack type normal.  The second part or EndCast is meant to be a DrainLife spell.  Unfortunately these two pieces are reversed, so if someone is holding a copper cross or the large silvery cross - something that negates draining, it doesn't prevent the EndCast, it prevents the normal damage spell component.

The crosses specifically negate the spell necromantic bolt. Kind of like the sunstone wristband specifically negates a handful of different confusion spells. Nothing broken here.
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: xian on December 28, 2016, 11:32:58 PM
First, thanks for taking the time to do this.  I'm excited for any fresh balancing/content, even if it takes a bit to get right.

ideas off the top of my head

Q&D back
remove auto regen rooms (maybe keep caveworm since it is such an icon)
also agree with Fury on making weapons (and spells) more "elementally complexed".    On top of that i think the mobs need to be modified the same way.  I would like to see more monsters have a -element resistance.  negative fire resistance is somewhat represented, but how often do you see negative lightning or stone?

*Set suicide password is a must
*Have evil points been fixed yet? if not, this should be priority.  worse case, max evil should be removed.
*Make more areas "scriptable"

I disagree with a spellmod nerf.  I think as it is now is perfect (though i might be bias due to always playing a mage).  Plus bringing back Q&D would already be helping the nonspellcasters.



Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Teferi on December 29, 2016, 05:12:31 AM
Quote from: xian on December 28, 2016, 11:32:58 PM
First, thanks for taking the time to do this.  I'm excited for any fresh balancing/content, even if it takes a bit to get right.

ideas off the top of my head

Q&D back
remove auto regen rooms (maybe keep caveworm since it is such an icon)
also agree with Fury on making weapons (and spells) more "elementally complexed".    On top of that i think the mobs need to be modified the same way.  I would like to see more monsters have a -element resistance.  negative fire resistance is somewhat represented, but how often do you see negative lightning or stone?

*Set suicide password is a must
*Have evil points been fixed yet? if not, this should be priority.  worse case, max evil should be removed.
*Make more areas "scriptable"

I disagree with a spellmod nerf.  I think as it is now is perfect (though i might be bias due to always playing a mage).  Plus bringing back Q&D would already be helping the nonspellcasters.

I think these ^^^ are some of the more important points.
-Gmud's regen timers are too fast. It's for this reason we are done with a push in 5 months.
-Evil points are broken totally. I attacked Beaver for 2 days straight and still remained neutral. He was Saint.
-Saint is not attainable in MajorMUD without mudop involvement. It was meant for special cases to "knight" a player if you will.
-If you are Good/Saint and cloud, you go back to Neutral in MajorMUD. This is part of the balance.

Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 29, 2016, 08:21:16 AM
My thoughts on the alignment system have always been a bit skewed from everyone else.  I don't think a person should be able to sit in the bank doing absolutely nothing, and slowly tick toward Good/Saint.  Mother Theresa didn't sit her ass at home doing nothing and achieve Saint-hood, she had to work for it!  I think the alignment tick should be a steady tick toward neutrality, and as long as you do nothing, you will become and stay neutral.

Everyone starts the game neutral, so if you do nothing, you stay neutral.  You are not aiding the side of good, nor evil, you are NEUTRAL!  Likewise, if you want to become Evil, you start attacking other neutral characters.  And, if you want to become good, you either attack evils, or offer penance to the Bishop or Annora.  Either way, once you are Good or Evil, you are constantly ticking back toward neutral and must ACT to maintain your current alignment.  The only assured alignment where no action is required...is NEUTRAL!
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Blake on December 29, 2016, 05:46:02 PM
Quote from: Coarse Horse on December 28, 2016, 09:32:44 PM
The crosses specifically negate the spell necromantic bolt. Kind of like the sunstone wristband specifically negates a handful of different confusion spells. Nothing broken here.

I get what it shows in the .dat files.  I also think those weren't thought out properly and they meant to point it to the drain.  The necromantic bolt spell itself has nothing in common with all of the other drain spells that the cross negates.  You really think a lvl 50 spell was written to be negated by a lvl1 item? 
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 29, 2016, 06:37:27 PM
The crosses were designed to negate the following:

necromantic beam (391): dread planewalker/fallen angel/necromancer/others drainlife 64-139
necromantic beam (955): rotting beholder drainlife 30-100
necromantic bolt (1008): Mage-3 nebo spell

This is an obvious error as the Mage-3 necromantic bolt spell is broken down into two parts, the necro bolt (1008) and the necro drain (1246).  The crosses should be set to negate the 1246 secondary effect, and not the primary 1008 necro bolt attack.  That's kind of weak the way it's set up now and will be at the top of the list to be fixed.
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: mr sinister on December 30, 2016, 01:45:13 PM
 the copper cross is a lvl 1 item and it is intended specifically to negate the necromancers spells.
this is the reasoning.
PHOENIX FEATHER QUEST.

also if someone decides to go evil mage it only makes sense there is an item, that is only usable by good characters BTW, to negate their nastiest spell.
kind of like choosing to be LAWFUL at the beginning and the entire reasoning behind SAINT
the entire PVP thing is kind of supposed to be like GOOD VS EVIL
gnome sayin?
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: mr sinister on December 30, 2016, 01:51:14 PM
oh yeah and
bring back SMASH!
:) :)
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 30, 2016, 03:36:08 PM
Quote from: mr sinister on December 30, 2016, 01:45:13 PM
the copper cross is a lvl 1 item and it is intended specifically to negate the necromancers spells.
this is the reasoning.

also if someone decides to go evil mage it only makes sense there is an item, that is only usable by good characters BTW, to negate their nastiest spell.
kind of like choosing to be LAWFUL at the beginning and the entire reasoning behind SAINT
the entire PVP thing is kind of supposed to be like GOOD VS EVIL
gnome sayin?

Using this line of reasoning, then evil mages should have a spell or an item that negates the damage from the HWARF, and all other good 5th quest weapons.   But, that's not going to happen.  And I'm not sure what you mean by "bring back smash", where did it go?
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 30, 2016, 03:41:48 PM
Also, been messing around on a MudRev realm, trying things out.  I think MudRev finally got Thieves right.  There is a valid reason to play thieves in MudRev realms, and I think we can use some of that philosophy for GMud.  Thieves have the most powerful, very nasty backstabs in a MR realm, along with perfect stealth from the start.  I think increasing their BS here, along with giving them shadowhome (think that's what it's called; the ability to hide and rest), then we can finally make thieves a viable option.  Of course, these updates would come with an EXP table increase as well.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: xian on December 30, 2016, 06:33:37 PM
I haven't played mudrev, but wouldn't those abilities just make the thief out ninja the ninja?  If they can do all that, what would be the point of playing a ninja?

Maybe lower crits for everyone else and just turn the ninja into a legit crit machine?  I fear that would create even more balancing issues though. 
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 30, 2016, 07:33:06 PM
Quote from: xian on December 30, 2016, 06:33:37 PM
I haven't played mudrev, but wouldn't those abilities just make the thief out ninja the ninja?  If they can do all that, what would be the point of playing a ninja?

Thieves would not have the critical hits as a ninja does, their primary attack would be the backstab.  Ninja's would still do more damage round for round, but a thief would (and should) have the premier backstab in the game.
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Blake on December 30, 2016, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 30, 2016, 03:41:48 PM
Also, been messing around on a MudRev realm, trying things out.  I think MudRev finally got Thieves right.  There is a valid reason to play thieves in MudRev realms, and I think we can use some of that philosophy for GMud.  Thieves have the most powerful, very nasty backstabs in a MR realm, along with perfect stealth from the start.  I think increasing their BS here, along with giving them shadowhome (think that's what it's called; the ability to hide and rest), then we can finally make thieves a viable option.  Of course, these updates would come with an EXP table increase as well.  Thoughts?

For whatever reason I thought thieves already had a) the most impressive backstabs in the game and b) shadowhome.  Obviously I'm wrong on b) - I thought I read it had been implemented here.  Shadowhome should happen immediately. 

Superstealth from the beginning would be a huge benefit to them as well.

I was also under the impression that thieves, when properly made, could out backstab all other chars.  I don't know the formula on backstabs, but they should have the highest backstabs in the realm at the same lvl as others.  I would invite you to check out some lvl 60-70 thieves with a good backstab weapon before you change anything there though.  One guy was claiming to get off 800+ backstab rounds with his thief which was worth half the highest char in the realms health.

The problem with thieves is that they suck to script with.  They are fragile, don't do much damage and don't contribute with any party spells/blesses.... especially when there is more than one monster.  Essentially what they exist for are backstab parties and the 4th quest cloak.

I think we could probably have a healthy debate on what chars need adjustments, gypsies, missionaries, thieves and warlocks are certainly underrepresented, and others like rangers certainly never seem to matter.  I think we should implement the changes one at a time though.
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: mr sinister on December 31, 2016, 05:25:43 AM
Proper smash has a knockdown
That's what I mean by "bring back smash"
Anyone else find it strange that dark monks have knock down but not mystic
I mean at least lvl 50 mystic should be able to knockdown
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: xian on January 02, 2017, 08:45:43 PM
Quote from: Jumpin Jack Flash on December 30, 2016, 07:33:06 PM
Thieves would not have the critical hits as a ninja does, their primary attack would be the backstab.  Ninja's would still do more damage round for round, but a thief would (and should) have the premier backstab in the game.

sounds good then. 

Also like the idea of mystic getting knock down. 
Title: Re: Let's get this started!
Post by: Blake on January 07, 2017, 01:29:31 PM
Fix the hard trainer?  There's a point on the path that creates a stop because a certain key does not exist?