Any way to add more the theives? They have been neglected for a decade.?
Could we give the ability to (when robbing) PICK which item they can see in the inventory of another player and take it?
Thanks.
Thieves can already choose which item they want to steal. But the ability to look through a players inventory would be interesting. It could be seperated from pickpocket.
Maybe something like peruse <target> or scan <target>.... although scan is already used as a keyword.
Don't know whether you should roll against seeing each item in inv, or roll against seeing entire inventory.
The ability to pick the item has ever worked as far as i know (13 ish years of mudding) BUT i promise, I'm more in to balance than is healthy... Dont worry about any class except mystics..and i only say that cause i odont play them. (gawd im wased.,da
ok i know that made no sense....love me..and i'll love u
Your reply made sense to all of us that can read drunk.
I had a bunch of theif ideas but I lost them so I'll have to look around again.
Perhaps the ability to steal items from shops at the risk of a dark cloud? Or able to rob banks, or money from people?
Honestly I forget how thievery works because I've prevented it on my BBS due to the crashing bug.
ATM I'm leaning toward the DND abilities of Use any Item, and use scrolls for thieves as quested abilities.
Use any item and using scrolls for Thief abilities would be fucking fantastic!
Thieves could also get some sort of appraisal for monsters. Maybe a Thief could determine if a boss character is going to drop a particular item upon his death? Just a neat little perk.
Maybe the thief could also get some sort of a "scouting" ability where he could look several rooms ahead instead of just one.
Just for giggles, maybe money would only weigh half as much for the thief?
I like the last idea.
80% exp table i always felt was too high which is funny, but mainly if you compare them with warrior, who now are too powerfull for 100%.
Lots of the balancing has been to improve the backstab, but the backstab is not the problem , and by buffing it means its even more painfull when you miss with it.
Combat 3, for thief is a solution, make them 100% exp to compensate a little perhaps, or try combat 4,5 but limit them to shortsword type weapons, the power is not in there weapon being magicial but there skill in using daggers and shortswords. So they are powerfull with cheap weaponary.
Thieves are good at escaping, maybe they dont get negatives for being medium, or are always considered one class lighter, eg light is none.
Gaunts cant see them while hidden.
Please for the love of god work on them a little.....and when I say a little I mean it....just combat 3...thats it...I could never play a thief as a combat 2. Its pretty brutal. I have always went the sneaker way, I love them. I have only rolled one thief. Any class that has to live on a backstab and combat 2 is going to get slapped around ALOT. I believe the combat 2 is the problem. They just cannot hang when they actually have to fight. Maby combat 3 and raise the exp chart to 100%. or maby combat 4 and only able to use daggers and shortswords like you said. I would relly like to roll one sunday. Though I will not be able to bring myself to do it as the class has been broken since the begging of time.
Laterz on,
Athcar
Maybe give the traps skill more than just disarming.. Give them the ability to set traps and be able to pop them on monsters / players.
Traps 1-2-3.
double backstab?
You know a double bs might do the trick....right now I believe in the pvp relm there is not one thief....in non pvp I have the only thief. Its just kinda sad that there is one class so awful that no one will touch it. Double bs would be awsome. The ability to set traps would be a neat twist. That would kinda add more to them. I think battle 3 would help. Ohh well.. life is good. Hope to see some changes with them someday to make them a viable option as a class.
Athcar
So I had a crazy idea to make thieves better.... simply make them combat-3. There is no reason that they are not combat-3 in the first place. What? We get thievery? Well if that is the reason then it is a stupid reason and it should be fixed. This is especially a great idea for GMUD specifically, considering the lack of the ability of thievery. No theivery = no reason they are not combat-3. Wouldn't it be easier to just make them combat-3 then to add all these little perks to them?
I could list the reasons that metro and wcc gave for not upgrading thieves. I always saw their point, but didnt really ever agree with them. I have to say that making thieves combat-3 just won't fix them. It very well might be included in the over-all fixing of the class. I'd also like to see them wearing chain.
I have a few other ideas for them, I'm not going to post them in the forums for debate however. I'd prefer to add them to the game in a test realm and see how I like them in game play.
I think that leather is fine.. it makes sense considering (in reality) chainmail would clang around when moving. What should be done is that a better leather set (or a few) should be added, maybe even thief-only leather items. Combat-3 would certanly help them. I mean at best, a delf thief would be the most powerful (unless you wanted to sneak after 30+) but that's if they are combat-2, as they currently are. Just seems like if they were instead combat-3 they would not suck as much. AC is irrelevant if you land enough swings before you even get hit. Even if you half-rounded a monster (meaning it takes 2 rounds. 1 round you would take them to about 50% hp and the second round you would finish them off) and they hit you once, AC is still not that important. AC is just a bonus. You could survive with 0/0 AC but it would be difficult.
I would consider maybe giving them some dodge powers something that would go along with their description better then chainmail. Thieves are supposed to be fairly agile while not being exactly a great combatant.
I had a really long thread on mudcentral a while back on thieves ... there were some good ideas on there. I always thought setting traps was an awesome one. Maybe another is a possibility of a deathblow.. (not necessarily killing someone, but incapacitating them)... I even liked the idea of giving them a higher magic resistance from hurtful spells. (reasoning behind it was that they stole some secrets from witchhunters) .. Combat 3 wont fix the problem.. only delay it. Autodetecting and autodisarming traps..
Other ideas I remember were something designed for a thief to escape a situation easily.. smoke screen or something.. disappear into the darkness... like a last chance get away.. since thieves are stealthy by design, and not so much designed for head to head combat.
Give thieves the ability to hide/sneak while in combat after a certain level?
Another thought, what about giving them the ability to dodge traps, no disarming them? Add the set trap ability, and you have an interesting pvp class.
Could always borrow ideas from.... http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Burglar
Lots of good stuff in there
How about a 'circle' ability to let them have a chance to backstab in combat?
Or, keeping with the concept of a support class like in D&D, they could knock enemies prone (remove combat rounds).
Some ideas:
Add a kai like energy systems to thieves and give them abilities they can use like...
- Enter stealth mode - movement speed reduced 50%, auto-hidden, harder to be found with search
- Vanish - enter stealth mode while in combat
- Tracking on items
- Cunning attack - next round weapon damage +50%
- Sand in eyes - Blind
- Startle - while sneaking, sneak up on an emeny and stun/confuse them
- Diversion - distracts a see hidden monster (or gaunt player) so the thief isn't seen
I've planned a few options for thieves to choose from, under my plan... Regardless of what changes we might make to their exp charts or combat level, thieves will have the ability to join one of several guilds located around the realm giving them unique abilities.
Raven Guild
The Raven Guild specializes in scouting and stealth. A thief in the raven guild learns how to be hidden anytime they use the sneak command. Stealth from one room to the next will no longer require use of the hide command. Also many monsters who would normally be able to sense a hidden players will not be able to and the thief will be able to improve on his abilities to ignore seehidden as he becomes more stealthy.
Horned Owl Guild
The Horned Owl Guild specializes in surprise attack. A thief in this guild will learn to enhance their ability to backstab as well as learn to use combat distractions to allow him to sink back into the shadows for another surprise attack.
Guild of the Fallen Hart
Members of this guild specialize in setting complicated traps. The traps increase in power and abilities as the thief progresses.
Harlequin's Retreat
Members of this guild learn to use the items made for other classes. At the highest levels they may even be able to use magic scrolls to evoke the spells within.
Quote from: DeathCow on June 18, 2010, 04:46:51 PM
Guild of the Fallen Hart
Members of this guild specialize in setting complicated traps. The traps increase in power and abilities as the thief progresses.
oooo so I can lay traps at all exits from newhaven and town square! Rock!
Quote from: Gardner Denver on June 18, 2010, 05:32:28 PM
oooo so I can lay traps at all exits from newhaven and town square! Rock!
There was a fairly extensive post on how traps should work..it included abuse prevention and balancing.
That and we'll make the mud op patrol for traps.
Quote from: DeathCow on June 18, 2010, 06:22:32 PM
we'll make the mud op patrol for traps.
That sounds like, ya know, effort.
Crit backstabs?
Just sayin'...
Give thieves Mage-3, Priest-3, and Drood-3, decrease their exp chart by 75% and make them combat-4 and I'll consider playing 1.
More seriously, if you gave them Mage-1, Priest-1, Druid-1 they could be a fun class? (Stolen magic abilities)
Or, new magic-type Thief-1, 'You cast spell of unsuck', 'you no longer feel sucky...but you still are'
Grin if you were serious about the magics then why stop at combat 4? But since i know you are, I have an idea myself.
Bring out some new thief-only items. Like as crude examples:
Wicked Shortsword
Level = 50
1h Sharp
Damage = 15-30
Speed = 1000
Encumberence = 90
Strength = 80
Acc = 5
BS Acc = 20
Abilities: BS DMG+20, BS MIN DMG+20, Stealth+10, Dodge -10
Cruel Dagger
Level = 20
1h Sharp
Damage = 5-15
Speed = 900
Encumberence = 100
Strength = 50
Acc = 10
BS Acc = 10
Abilities: BS ACC+10, BS MIN DMG+10, BS MAX DMG+5
-----------------------------------------
Theif's Silk
Level = 40
Encumberence = 150
Silk, Torso
AC/DR = 16/0
ACC = 0
Abilities: Dodge +5, Stealth +15, Picklocks+15
Rotting Hide
Level = 45
Encumberence = 600
Leather, Torso
AC/DR = 25/5
ACC = 3
Abilities: Dodge -10, Stealth +15, Magical +2
I had thought about the abuse ability of traps for a while on of my ideas was to give PC set traps the ability to only affect a player with-in its level range. So setting a trap in say town square would have no effect on players out of the pvp level range setting. It's the most efficient and fair way I can think of managing it's potential abuse. I would also say that each trap should have a rating that dictates how many rooms apart they can be set so that it doesn't preclude a players death just from traveling a couple of rooms. Such as walking from town square into the bank.
Personally i would like to see the following:
Thief: 125% exp table:
Add: Combat 3
LVL1: +5 bs acc, +5 bs min/max
add another +6 every 10 levels. or +.6 bs acc/min/max bonus every level
This would help make them alot more viable as pure bsers, giving them a little more ACC and wiggle room in the combat area, and making their exp table something that is more in line with the game design.
I don't think this is an overpowered suggestion given how much thieves really suck. Like really bad. Maybe too much bs acc in the end but i dunno thieves gotta land a bs or else they got nothing anyways.
And, do not allow any other class the ability to pick a gang house vault! This is the only reason to ever play a thief, as it currently stands.