Let's get this started!

[mr sinister]

oh yeah and
bring back SMASH!
:) :)

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

the copper cross is a lvl 1 item and it is intended specifically to negate the necromancers spells.
this is the reasoning.

also if someone decides to go evil mage it only makes sense there is an item, that is only usable by good characters BTW, to negate their nastiest spell.
kind of like choosing to be LAWFUL at the beginning and the entire reasoning behind SAINT
the entire PVP thing is kind of supposed to be like GOOD VS EVIL
gnome sayin?

Using this line of reasoning, then evil mages should have a spell or an item that negates the damage from the HWARF, and all other good 5th quest weapons.   But, that's not going to happen.  And I'm not sure what you mean by "bring back smash", where did it go?

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

Also, been messing around on a MudRev realm, trying things out.  I think MudRev finally got Thieves right.  There is a valid reason to play thieves in MudRev realms, and I think we can use some of that philosophy for GMud.  Thieves have the most powerful, very nasty backstabs in a MR realm, along with perfect stealth from the start.  I think increasing their BS here, along with giving them shadowhome (think that's what it's called; the ability to hide and rest), then we can finally make thieves a viable option.  Of course, these updates would come with an EXP table increase as well.  Thoughts?

[xian]

I haven't played mudrev, but wouldn't those abilities just make the thief out ninja the ninja?  If they can do all that, what would be the point of playing a ninja?

Maybe lower crits for everyone else and just turn the ninja into a legit crit machine?  I fear that would create even more balancing issues though. 

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

I haven't played mudrev, but wouldn't those abilities just make the thief out ninja the ninja?  If they can do all that, what would be the point of playing a ninja?

Thieves would not have the critical hits as a ninja does, their primary attack would be the backstab.  Ninja's would still do more damage round for round, but a thief would (and should) have the premier backstab in the game.

[Blake]

Also, been messing around on a MudRev realm, trying things out.  I think MudRev finally got Thieves right.  There is a valid reason to play thieves in MudRev realms, and I think we can use some of that philosophy for GMud.  Thieves have the most powerful, very nasty backstabs in a MR realm, along with perfect stealth from the start.  I think increasing their BS here, along with giving them shadowhome (think that's what it's called; the ability to hide and rest), then we can finally make thieves a viable option.  Of course, these updates would come with an EXP table increase as well.  Thoughts?

For whatever reason I thought thieves already had a) the most impressive backstabs in the game and b) shadowhome.  Obviously I'm wrong on b) - I thought I read it had been implemented here.  Shadowhome should happen immediately. 

Superstealth from the beginning would be a huge benefit to them as well.

I was also under the impression that thieves, when properly made, could out backstab all other chars.  I don't know the formula on backstabs, but they should have the highest backstabs in the realm at the same lvl as others.  I would invite you to check out some lvl 60-70 thieves with a good backstab weapon before you change anything there though.  One guy was claiming to get off 800+ backstab rounds with his thief which was worth half the highest char in the realms health.

The problem with thieves is that they suck to script with.  They are fragile, don't do much damage and don't contribute with any party spells/blesses.... especially when there is more than one monster.  Essentially what they exist for are backstab parties and the 4th quest cloak.

I think we could probably have a healthy debate on what chars need adjustments, gypsies, missionaries, thieves and warlocks are certainly underrepresented, and others like rangers certainly never seem to matter.  I think we should implement the changes one at a time though.

[mr sinister]

Proper smash has a knockdown
That's what I mean by "bring back smash"
Anyone else find it strange that dark monks have knock down but not mystic
I mean at least lvl 50 mystic should be able to knockdown

[xian]

Thieves would not have the critical hits as a ninja does, their primary attack would be the backstab.  Ninja's would still do more damage round for round, but a thief would (and should) have the premier backstab in the game.

sounds good then. 

Also like the idea of mystic getting knock down. 

[Blake]

Fix the hard trainer?  There's a point on the path that creates a stop because a certain key does not exist?