Balancing the game by changing combat instead of exp charts

[Excarkun]

with playing with mme a little the wost i got on a warrior was -22  acc
and Dodge I got to -36  tho but  that is just messing with it a bit and lvl 50.

[DeathCow]

I don't think -acc is a normal negative for plate.  The problem is plate ac occurs mostly at the lower levels.  At upper levels its not as bad as it could be.  

As I typed that I of course realized that another problem does occur with plate...around the time they over come the enc pens...Its quite painful to think about really a that point they get damage equal to other classes AND massive AC.

[MudHunter]

One realistic solution is to level restrict armors.

level 0 cloth and leather.
level 15 chain
level 20 scale
level 30 plate

(thats prolly off, but you get my meaning)

As it stands right now, whomever gets to the locket and gets that 100 gold can make 2 warriors basically unhitable, and can get to thrag in 3 hours max. (Which we did in this last reset on pvp. thrag went down to a party of 6 level 4's. Thats really silly sick)

[DeathCow]

One realistic solution is to level restrict armors.

level 0 cloth and leather.
level 15 chain
level 20 scale
level 30 plate

(thats prolly off, but you get my meaning)

As it stands right now, whomever gets to the locket and gets that 100 gold can make 2 warriors basically unhitable, and can get to thrag in 3 hours max. (Which we did in this last reset on pvp. thrag went down to a party of 6 level 4's. Thats really silly sick)

Uh In reg mud you might have an issue with level 4's.  It really helps to have that level 9 ACC bonus on thrag(combat-5's might be ok without it), but acc is rather messed up in GMUD atm.  Also in reg mud the random rgen would probably cause that party to die to agon and lbols.  I'm not saying its impossible, but I think you'd have a hard time with level 4 characters in MMUD.  I could be wrong though, its been a long while since I last took a group to hit thrag.

The locket really is kind of a problem on a fresh reset.  It can easily decide the top ranks of the board for weeks.

I don't think its a bad quest for say, day 2 of a bbs, I just can't think of a way to keep it how it is currently set up, without allowing it to play such a major role in the future of a bbs.

Anywho back to the plate, I think in the long run I'm just gonna have to scale back low level armour's ac.

[Zetetic]

If you want to balance plate/chain/scale at those lower levels, I think that the simplest method will be to increase the cost of the armour phenomenally. Make the plate classes buy chainmail and leather to keep themselves going until they can afford to buy scalemail. Then they need to start saving up for that fiendishly expensive heavier plate (aim for around level 10-15?). That full plate corselet should be up near the one runic mark, and scale all of the other plate upwards as well (why does wyvernhide gear cost not all that much less than adamantite platemail?). Ideally, I want the warriors to be sacrificing scripting high exp areas in order to generate more cash to afford their expensive armour.

This would also balance out the locket, and mean that people wont be doing Thrag at level 4.

This all effects only the start of a realm. We all know that cash starts to really be available on any street corner as time goes by. I would recommend that a system be implemented that removes cash from the ground after it has been there for a while (7 days?), or the equivalent of the old floor cleanup system be created in order to wipe cash only from the ground on a schedule (perhaps add the option to delete items as well).

[Gardner Denver]

The locket really is kind of a problem on a fresh reset.  It can easily decide the top ranks of the board for weeks.

I don't think its a bad quest for say, day 2 of a bbs, I just can't think of a way to keep it how it is currently set up, without allowing it to play such a major role in the future of a bbs.

Put a level restriction in the textblock when you open the drawer.  < lvl <level> it would give you some piece of junk, >= <level> you get the locket

[DeathCow]

Put a level restriction in the textblock when you open the drawer.  < lvl <level> it would give you some piece of junk, >= <level> you get the locket

Make it like a level 4 quest?

[DeathCow]

Changes in AC cost.  Example.
From


#      Name                          Max    Regen               Cost  
443    black plate leggings          15     no regen            1,200 Gold   (120,000 Copper)
416    chainmail halter              15     50% for 1 per 4h    40 Gold      (4,000 Copper)
14     chainmail hauberk             25     35% for 1 per 3h    40 Gold      (4,000 Copper)
24     chainmail leggings            24     35% for 1 per 3h    12 Gold      (1,200 Copper)
418    fine breastplate              3      10% for 1 per 12h   3,000 Gold   (300,000 Copper)
19     full plate corselet           2      5% for 1 per 4h     500 Gold     (50,000 Copper)
28     full plate leggings           2      5% for 1 per 4h     150 Gold     (15,000 Copper)
17     half-plate corselet           5      8% for 1 per 4h     180 Gold     (18,000 Copper)
18     light plate corselet          3      5% for 1 per 4h     300 Gold     (30,000 Copper)
27     light plate leggings          3      5% for 1 per 4h     100 Gold     (10,000 Copper)
25     scalemail leggings            22     35% for 1 per 4h    16 Gold      (1,600 Copper)
15     scalemail tunic               22     35% for 1 per 4h    50 Gold      (5,000 Copper)
417    steel brassiere               5      10% for 1 per 4h    180 Gold     (18,000 Copper)
To


#      Name                          Max    Regen               Cost  
443    black plate leggings          15     no regen            1,200 Gold   (120,000 Copper)
416    chainmail halter              15     50% for 1 per 4h    1 Platinum   (10,000 Copper)
14     chainmail hauberk             25     35% for 1 per 3h    1 Platinum   (10,000 Copper)
24     chainmail leggings            24     35% for 1 per 3h    90 Gold      (9,000 Copper)
418    fine breastplate              3      10% for 1 per 12h   120 Platinum (1,200,000 Copper)
19     full plate corselet           2      5% for 1 per 4h     125 Platinum (1,250,000 Copper)
28     full plate leggings           2      5% for 1 per 4h     85 Platinum  (850,000 Copper)
17     half-plate corselet           5      8% for 1 per 4h     45 Platinum  (450,000 Copper)
18     light plate corselet          3      5% for 1 per 4h     75 Platinum  (750,000 Copper)
27     light plate leggings          3      5% for 1 per 4h     75 Platinum  (750,000 Copper)
25     scalemail leggings            22     35% for 1 per 4h    25 Platinum  (250,000 Copper)
15     scalemail tunic               22     35% for 1 per 4h    50 Platinum  (500,000 Copper)
417    steel brassiere               5      10% for 1 per 4h    75 Platinum  (750,000 Copper)

[Rorik]

Wow.. if you're aiming to discourage early domination by the platers, I think that would pretty much do it.  On the same token, though, who wants to script bandits and slums and such until you're level 15?  I dislike the huge rush early after a reset, too, but this might be going a little too far.  It might be nerfing the plate advantage a little too much, but I think it's the best solution I've seen so far.

[Darmius]

I think another way would be to limit the amount of basic armor sets.  It would be much easier to control the AC/DR variables.

It's kinda off-balance, there is one chain set, one scale mail set, 3 or 4 plate sets, 2 leather sets?

Remove full-plate, light-plate and use half-plate as the defacto plate mail base line.

Code Select Expand

full plate corselet   23/10    Gone   
scalemail tunic       20/6     17/4
half-plate corselet   19/9     19/6
chainmail hauberk     18/4     15/2
rigid leather tunic   13/1.3   13/1.3

Golden breastplate is actually good again at 21/7

[Gardner Denver]

Make it like a level 4 quest?

Well if you want to make it a "day 2" quest should go at least level 10, but yeah anything that makes it so that a level 1 or 2 doesn't get that big boost financially.

[DeathCow]

Golden breastplate is actually good again at 21/7

The Golden breastplate is a pretty nice item..or at least it is a nice item for lower strength races.  I'm fairly certain that adjusting the stat section of the accuracy formula away from strength will make the lighter plate alternatives used more often..

[Thergin]

Few things, level 4 restriction on locket = half - orc thief.

You can not make plate that expensive it is very unfair on classes that rely so heavily on that ac, where priests/mages/druid/ninja/mystic get lots of ac/dodge while naked.

Warriors only have there gear, and for corpse recovery being able to buy it from the shop is very important.

If you want to solve this issue, then drop the ac slightly on the cheap stuff, offer new shop stuff thats level restricted at a higher price thats under starsteel like level 20, and add a small level restriction on the current full plate like level 15, level 10 on the light plate/brig leave scale as is.

LEVEL
15     443    black plate leggings          15     no regen            1,200 Gold   (120,000 Copper)
00     416    chainmail halter              15     50% for 1 per 4h    40 Gold      (4,000 Copper)
00     14      chainmail hauberk             25     35% for 1 per 3h    40 Gold      (4,000 Copper)
00     24      chainmail leggings            24     35% for 1 per 3h    12 Gold      (1,200 Copper)
10     418    fine breastplate              3      10% for 1 per 12h   3,000 Gold   (300,000 Copper)
15     19     full plate corselet           2      5% for 1 per 4h     500 Gold     (50,000 Copper)
15     28     full plate leggings           2      5% for 1 per 4h     150 Gold     (15,000 Copper)
10     17     half-plate corselet           5      8% for 1 per 4h     180 Gold     (18,000 Copper)
10     18     light plate corselet          3      5% for 1 per 4h     300 Gold     (30,000 Copper)
10     27     light plate leggings          3      5% for 1 per 4h     100 Gold     (10,000 Copper)
00     25     scalemail leggings            22     35% for 1 per 4h    16 Gold      (1,600 Copper)
00     15     scalemail tunic               22     35% for 1 per 4h    50 Gold      (5,000 Copper)
00     417    steel brassiere               5      10% for 1 per 4h    180 Gold     (18,000 Copper)

[DeathCow]

I somehow don't see this as being the answer I was looking for.  Although I'm sure it makes that lone hog warrior incapable of the level 9 thrag run, or at least makes it more difficult.  Although I always run the thrag run with a maul, it would probably be easier with a heavy crossbow.

I think that, in order to test this we will have to run this through a few beta realm tests.  We will simply have to make the changes and then base the success of these changes on results and feedback.

Trust that I do see point that people are trying to get at when they argue against an idea.  But really there are lots and lots of tweaks that need to work in cordination with each other.  In the long run its probably too much at envision all at once and the only way to see how things work is to just try it.  Sadly with mmud its a little difficult to guage how everything will work when it takes months to play through the whole game.