Serenity isnt working properly

[schwagg]

My priest's mana regen spell, Serenity, doesn't seem to be working properly. Upon recast it, is refreshing the current level of mana regen that it provided from the previous cast. Through this bug it is possible to exploit it to obtain the best tick possible permanently, simply by recasting Serenity before it's duration has worn off. I'd be willing to bet that every class's mana regen spells are doing the exact same thing.

[The Crazy Animal]

This is from a change we left open for discussion.... Currently spells that have random rolls only re-roll the variable if the spell has worn completely off. The thought was that if you are recasting it while its active your just paying upkeep to keep the spell active rather then trying for a new instance of the spell...

It has its pros and cons under this method but for the most part those players around at that time came to the conclusion that it was fair and doesn't leave variable roll bless spells as open to recast abuse for good rolls... Ie. it makes you wait if you want a new roll... If your lucky enough to get a good roll then you can keep it up untill you can't pay for the upkeep on that spell anymore and we all know that eventuallity... Its a trade off...

"On a side note I like all of the options for these type of effects and at some point would like all of these variable roll options in the game however for now this is the default that we picked to stick with..."

[Gardner Denver]

It's not a bad idea in general, I can see it being abused in cases like mana flux to get huge mana regens that are sustainable though.
<edit>

Also, if you're going for Megamud compatibility, this will stop a mage dead in their tracks.  Megamud is setup to recast mana flux if the user gets a bad roll on flux.  It will recast every 30 seconds but the roll will never change since the spell never wore off...  Just a thought.

[The Crazy Animal]

It's not a bad idea in general, I can see it being abused in cases like mana flux to get huge mana regens that are sustainable though.<edit>

Mana flux was the spell it came up and was decided under actually... While its true they could try to sustain their large ticks under this method but lets face it they are mages that use lots of mana on their various spells especially combat damage spells. So its fairly inevitable that they will hit 0 eventually when that spell is about to wear off...

Also, if you're going for Megamud compatibility, this will stop a mage dead in their tracks.  Megamud is setup to recast mana flux if the user gets a bad roll on flux.  It will recast every 30 seconds but the roll will never change since the spell never wore off...  Just a thought.

As for megamud just keep the min mana regen rate at 0 or +1 your normal rate and unless if falls under that it shouldn't try to recast it every 30 seconds... Or you can just set it up to cast the spell like a normal bless and deal with the random...

"Most of these little changes will get looked at again prior to a release but for the moment we thought they worked well enough to keep around... In the mean time there open to discussion untill either they are decided to go with the mmud standard or we figure out some better option to go with."

[schwagg]

The problem is that the balance is shifted through this method. Mages and Druids are able to get much higher mana ticks  due to the top end +ManaRgn of their respective spells because their spells can also have a chance to give them -Mana Regen. Priest mana regen spells (Serenity/Profane Link) provide less maximum mana regen, but don't have a negative value in their range. Basically Mages and Druids get off twice as good as Priests do because of this bug. Mana Flux and Nature Tap are supposed to be tapping into the chaotic powers of their respective "elements", the spell descriptions even say so. That's why Chaos Surge is in the game for Mages, theyre not supposed to get their constant flow of mana till higher level.

[The Crazy Animal]

I re-arranged this to make it a little easier to answer...

The problem is that the balance is shifted through this method. Mages and Druids are able to get much higher mana ticks  due to the top end +ManaRgn of their respective spells because their spells can also have a chance to give them -Mana Regen. Basically Mages and Druids get off twice as good as Priests do because of this bug. Mana Flux and Nature Tap are supposed to be tapping into the chaotic powers of their respective "elements", the spell descriptions even say so. That's why Chaos Surge is in the game for Mages, theyre not supposed to get their constant flow of mana till higher level.

That chance negative value is what keeps it from being abused-able... They are just as likely to hit a negative value as a possitive one. And the only way to get a new roll is to let it run its course... Which when it does and they recast it, it roll that new random value... It's this function which removes the actual bug which allowed a mage or druid to just recast the spell untill they get the value in their favor... I.e. they have to live with the negative effects of those spells now but in trade they can try to maintain those values at the expense of using up their mana...

Priest mana regen spells (Serenity/Profane Link) provide less maximum mana regen, but don't have a negative value in their range.

Right so its a much better deal for priests actually....

[schwagg]

Wrong. Current mechanics allow you to retain a high tick ***INDEFINATELY***! This means that a Mage can run around pretty much permanently with +150 mana regen, a Druid with +200, and a Priest with a max of 85 with profane link. Doesn't seem very balanced to me.

[El_Jefe]

Yeah, I noticed the general trend in this mud is to want more god-mode less complicated mode.

old system was better/fairer

[The Crazy Animal]

Wrong. Current mechanics allow you to retain a high tick ***INDEFINATELY***! This means that a Mage can run around pretty much permanently with +150 mana regen, a Druid with +200, and a Priest with a max of 85 with profane link. Doesn't seem very balanced to me.

Profane link @ LVL 50 has a max of +100 mrgn just thought you should know... (I just copied this out of mmudex)

Seriously what your not getting is that the mechanics of this are working in a manner we found acceptable for the moment. The imbalance is due to the content right now and its not the end of the world... Remember - this is a beta test and things especially mechanics change all the time its not something to get overly amped over if its not going in your characters favor right now...

We do have plans to futher revise the way recast, stacking, variable spell behaviors, and other spell mechanics work but we decided that the current method in this type of spell worked well enough to leave in place untill were ready to do that work... And yes the current method will be part of one of those functions that can be controlled on a spell by spell basis but it doesn't mean that it this one method will be the default come a public release.

"And really personally the way I think these spells should work is that they should be rolling for a new random value every tick rather being a constant single roll for the duration. Ya I know most people probably won't like that method but I think its more fitting to the theme."

I really don't know what else to tell you here...

Yeah, I noticed the general trend in this mud is to want more god-mode less complicated mode.

And El_Jefe I thought that was just your trend... :P

[El_Jefe]

nah, i want it difficult for all classes and builds. 

you just fear pvp for some reason.  its the best thing that happened to mud.  it should be able to be turned off as a setting.

[The Crazy Animal]

nah, i want it difficult for all classes and builds. 

Giggle thats more like it... Nice and challenging and people should have their feet whipped for scripting afk for too long...

[schwagg]

I just think its pretty ridiculous how these clear bugs are being interpreted as balanced just for the sake of arguing.  They're being abused every day, which seems to be a recurring theme in this beta. If you think it's fine, then ok. It's fine.

[MudHunter]

I just think its pretty ridiculous how these clear bugs are being interpreted as balanced just for the sake of arguing.  They're being abused every day, which seems to be a recurring theme in this beta. If you think it's fine, then ok. It's fine.

Lets completely forget priests are combat chars, and can get 500 avg rounds meelee.

Yer just used to priestly classes being overpowered in general.

We'll get things fixed, takes time. eventually, priests will be gods again.

[schwagg]

Russell, you are probably one of the most ignorant people I've ever encountered in the MajorMUD scene. But you knew that.

[MudHunter]

Russell, you are probably one of the most ignorant people I've ever encountered in the MajorMUD scene. But you knew that.

Exp:   461 k/hr
Cash:  388 gold/hr
Miss:  17%
Hit:   48%   Rng:1-74     Avg:37
Extra: 0%    Rng:0-0      Avg:0
Crit:  35%   Rng:50-260   Avg:189
BS:    ---   Rng:0-0      Avg:0
Pre:   N/A   Rng:0-0      Avg:0
Cast:  N/A   Rng:0-0      Avg:0
Round:       Rng:0-951    Avg:285
Sneak: 0%   
Dodge: 31% 

Thats a 419 avg round. On a priest.

Priests, in majormud, are the most overpowered char. Even more than a pally. Yeah, paladins do more damage, but a priest can have 120+ ac, and do as much damage as a pally with a shield AND have mgra and gdhe and good damage spells.

The priestly classes have been so overpowered for so long, people like you actually forgot what its like to have that taken away...

Serenity has ALWAYS been weaker and less useful than flux and alot more than ntap. Tis the way it is. Is it different in gmud? Yes. Is it the end of the world? No. Quite bitchin.

sheesh.