Starting a second realm this weekend

[Vitoc]

I realize there's a lot of drama going on in our primary realm.  I'm purposely trying to stay out of it so I can keep my focus on bug-fixes and ultimately the v1.0 launch.  However, the last thing I want is people getting discouraged by in-game drama and leaving.

This weekend I'm going to do my best to get a second realm running on the same TGS instance.  I will disallow pvp in that realm, and there will be restrictions on gossips (use your best judgement and error on the side of caution) and other forms of harassment.  Failure to follow these rules in this new realm will result in your ip getting banned, and I'm serious about this.  I don't have an exact date and time yet for when this will happen, but I'm going to do my best to get everything working before Sunday night.  In an effort to make it a fair start for everyone I will post an announcement with an exact date and time at least 4 hours in advance and I plan to have it be during the middle of the day as opposed to late night or early morning, so plan on the announcement between 8am and 2pm PST and the new realm actually up betwen 12pm and 6pm PST.

The current realm will also remain running.  You will see a second entry on the main menu for the new realm.

[Raybdbomb]

good news  ;D

[Fermouth]

Okay, so if you are planning on creating another realm, maybe you could reset the current realm as well.  A bunch of people will probably move over to the nonpvp realm, just because they want peace and quiet.  But that leaves tons of items and stuff and characters on top lists that could be cleaned up.  I know a lot of people have quit and that has ate up several limiteds and quest weapons.  Myself, I'm not too big on scripting, I prefer playing by hand and stuff.  But I know others who want to pvp and stuff will want cool items that may be stuck on character who have quit or who will quit playing on this realm.

Just my two cents.

[Artomas]

I agree. Why not start two fresh realms again. A lot of people are gonna jump ship to the non pvp realm and really the only people left in the pvp realm will be those who don't take the game to heart and see the game as the txt that it is.

Plus two fresh realms will give you the opp to start up the realm link like we talked bout earlier ;)

Arto

[Raybdbomb]

i think ideally there would be just one realm.  but as we cannot separate PVP from non PVP, i guess this is a necessity.

and for the record, I agree both should be reset.

[MudHunter]

I dont think a reset would be a bad idea, tho I would settle for turning off pvp and getting all the items reset back into the realm.

A second realm would be nice either way. I am honestly tired of the morons that come in and scream "I'll pvp you till tomorrow nooooon!" then whine when they get pwnd. I"m not big on pvp, and having to kill them is so tiresome.

[Raybdbomb]

yea, but you gotta test pvp, it's a big part of the game...

like i said, if we could have some USERS exempt from pvp, this problem would go away.

[Fermouth]

We could maybe implement some pvp level restrictions and introduce old items back into game from nonplaying accounts....

That would work.  We sort of need high level characters to test the modules that lower levels can not live in.
And it takes a long time to get high level.  Especially since all the monster regen bugs are pretty much fixed.

I guess resetting would set back the launch date maybe....

But yeah, we need to test pvp.

Could also do something that I once seen in a MUD that's unlike majormud.   They had 2 different types of players..  Pkillers and Regular joes who couldn't pkill except in arenas....

Pkillers could only attack pkillers, etc....
Just a suggestion.... I'm not sure what kind of coding would have to be implemented....  Or if this is even feasible.

[The Crazy Animal]

I've seen that pkill type of thing done in different ways before it doesn't normally work well unless its done via areas i.e. some areas would be say just like getting killed in the arena but then others are open pvp... It works out nice that way since you can vary exp rates based on risk as well.. I think most of the muds that do that call them zones if I remember them right.

[MudHunter]

Could always test pvp after everything else. Lets face it: Pvp kills realms. It usually draws the morons like Jeffy and Cypress/Mackerel/oompa/scwanz. I say turn off pvp. fix any bugs that allow pvp when it shouldnt... then we can do a pvp week or so and fix all that. Like I said, its tiresome to have to kill morons over and over.

Also, can we do something about the lotsa accounts by one persons? Its bad enough to have to fight 3 dudes from one guy, but fighting 5 is annoying.

[The Crazy Animal]

Could always test pvp after everything else. Lets face it: Pvp kills realms. It usually draws the morons like Jeffy and Cypress/Mackerel/oompa/scwanz. I say turn off pvp. fix any bugs that allow pvp when it shouldnt... then we can do a pvp week or so and fix all that. Like I said, its tiresome to have to kill morons over and over.

Also, can we do something about the lotsa accounts by one persons? Its bad enough to have to fight 3 dudes from one guy, but fighting 5 is annoying.

Pvp doesn't kill realms, thats just silly if it did it wouldn't be in the game anymore.... The thing that kills realms is people who take things just a little to far when playing. This covers everything from 24/7 scripting to item hording to script killing to leaving items on the ground because they are to lazy to sell them... Now that rather long list does include excessive pvp but more so in the non-consensual harassment type of way. Too much of anything in the game can be bad for a realm...

I don't know if vitoc has time to do it right now but an ip filter to manage the number of multiple connections could be used to restrict how many accounts a person could log into at one time. Provided theres an admin command to alter the number would could use it, to restrict how many accounts a person abusing their dupes for pvp could have. I.e. we set the max limit and then could reduce it below that point for problem users.

The other thing I know Vitoc and myself had talked about a while ago is some type of realm karma system where a player causing problems could be given karma points that at certain point have auto enforced retaliations take place based on them... I.e. turn off ability to communicate, send warning messages, temp ban for a few minutes... Kind of a Auto-Mud-OP that works based on unique active realm population (per IP online) and the percentage of them complaining (giving the bad karma) on a user... This really only helps though in a active at keys realm. I'm not entirely sure how bad the situation is though to say this is a good use of vitocs time to build in since the majority of these complaints have been happening when I'm not around and I'm not hearing all of them either... However its certainly one of those things we've thought about to help create and maintain a more drama free enjoyable realm to play in.

The other thing that I can think of is to use the mechanic that lawful used as a pvp abuse punishment where as a offending player could be sys powered to only be able to attack if attacked. Though currently since retaliation is not in this isn't a currently use-useable solution to the problem but I could see it working in the future.

As far as dupes and pvp go I'll talk with vitoc when I get a chance and see if we can come up with anything for the reset as far as dupe pvp rules go. I don't think its particularly fair to have someone use dupes like that other then maybe in the arena.

[Raybdbomb]

That's a good point actually...

[MudHunter]

I will state this again, this time in more strong terms.

PVP kills realms. I dunno where you've been playin, but unrestricted pvp causes so many problems, people leave. If this wasnt a test realm for gmud, I'm betting Winterhawk woulda left. I know I wouldnt be playing here with unrestricted pvp like it is. Most of us wouldnt.

pvp favors those with no life. and the ones that think its A great idea to kill someone for gear, etc. This is discouraging, since the ones with a life and slower skillz in pvp will always end up with crap bought gear and frustrations. SO in a pvp realm, you end up with all the young kids, and complete losers that cant hold down a job.

Now, here it just ended up that they fucked with me. On a sat night. With the mr system not in place, basically I beat the hell out of him and his 6 accounts. But eventually I had to go to sleep... AND besides, he killed my script an dtook my gear. MOstof it is gone, and I have no clue where. BUt for about 14-15 hours, I rolled one of his chars and killed his other 2 for all that time. But I had to sleep. and he wins again. This happens time and time again in pvp realms. PVP can be tested later. We're unna get a dick to come in again, and they'll just make a little thief or 3 and start taking gear again.

PVP KILLS REALMS.

[Raybdbomb]

i agree wholeheartedly.

make a poll, if everyone doesn't care or explicitly WANTS pvp disabled, start 1 realm without pvp and make the pvp come later.

newer mmorpgs have been updated so that you don't lose your items when you die.  perhaps if we rid the game of the notion of # lives, or the notion of losing all your items it wouldn't kill a realm.

[Vitoc]

i agree wholeheartedly.

make a poll, if everyone doesn't care or explicitly WANTS pvp disabled, start 1 realm without pvp and make the pvp come later.

newer mmorpgs have been updated so that you don't lose your items when you die.  perhaps if we rid the game of the notion of # lives, or the notion of losing all your items it wouldn't kill a realm.

WoW! (pun intended)

No offense, but I thought you were more of a MajorMUD purist than that.  I'm not saying change isn't good but that's a pretty extreme change.  The reason MMOs do it is to maximize their bottom line; people that get upset over something like being killed and/or their items being stolen will quit aren't going to be paying the monthly fee for the MMO.  One major problem with this is in MajorMUD/GreaterMUD you have the concept of limited items.  Other than the person handing those items over themself, the only way for those limited items to ever see new hands is through PvP or theft.  I believe PvP also allows some self-regulation of realms, where if someone gets out of line a group of users can get together and put them back in their place.

All that being said, I understand the problems that PvP presents and what's happened in our realm is a classic example of what can happen with unrestricted PvP.  I won't deny, just resetting the current realm with a more strict PvP policy and moderating public channels will take me way less time than trying to get a second realm up and running.  If everyone is ok with just doing that for now, it will save me time, time that can be put into fixing bugs and implementing things that still need to be implemented like mres.

What do you guys think?