druid spells

[proteus]

I don't know if the spells are going to be based right off MMUD's spellbook, but if they are, can the -skin spells be changed to mostly enhance DR instead of AC? It never seemed to make sense that enhancing your own skin made you harder to actually hit, at least to me. It should simply be able to absorb more damage.

And of course, this is provided the AC/DR system will stay as it is.

[DeathCow]

I don't know if the spells are going to be based right off MMUD's spellbook, but if they are, can the -skin spells be changed to mostly enhance DR instead of AC? It never seemed to make sense that enhancing your own skin made you harder to actually hit, at least to me. It should simply be able to absorb more damage.

And of course, this is provided the AC/DR system will stay as it is.

The ac/dr system will be the same, the spells will of course be slightly different.  Spells like barkskin and stoneskin are rpg classics and of course druids will have them.  The actual stats for all the spells I have in mind havent really been worked out yet, but having them more focused on Dr seems like a possibility.  Of course your arguement seems like it should apply to all armours.

[Zanthus the Lich]

I never quite understood MajorMUD's AC/DR system either.  If you think about actual swordfighting you only have a few things happening. 

1) attacker misses because he doesn't have enough skill to aim properly.  Miss message.
2) defender dodges the blow due to his defense skill or agility.  Dodge message.
3) defender blocks the blow with his shield or parries with his weapon.  Block/parry message.
4) blow hits, but is partially or completely absorbed by armor.  defection message or damage reduced.
5) blow hits completely.  full damage done.
6) blow hits in a critical spot and does more damage than normal.

There is nothing in there about AC making you harder to hit.  That's your defense skill and agility.  A miss message should only be triggered by the attacker's attack skill causing an errant swing.  That should be checked first.  If the attacker's skill causes a successful swing, it is then checked against the defender's defense skill to determine a block/parry/dodge.  If the attack gets through the defenses, it is then checked against the armor rating of the defender to determine how much of the blow is absorbed.  Critical hits should be a comparison of the attacker's skill against the defender's skill with a modifier on the armor rating (more armor makes criticals less likely).

[DeathCow]

It is a bizzare system, but it comes from the most classic fantasy style game.  Overhauling that system maybe something we do at some point.  But for now at least I'm sticking with AC/DR.  Although I'd have to say for realism there should be an Offensive Combat Value(OCV) and a Defensive Combat Value(DCV)  Combat would be a comparison of the 2 values +/- random chance.  Most armour would then act to reduce DCV but increase damage absorbtion.  DCV and OCV then would increase with level and stats.

[lumikant]

AC represents the chance that a weapon blow will glance off or be entirely ineffective. I.e, you're wearing a conical helm, someone slashes down at you and it hits the side and slides off. That would be a miss via AC.

[DeathCow]

AC represents the chance that a weapon blow will glance off or be entirely ineffective. I.e, you're wearing a conical helm, someone slashes down at you and it hits the side and slides off. That would be a miss via AC.

In that case ac is really overstated in majormud.  And it can't explain how one could miss via AC with a maul.

[lumikant]

get a piece of sheet metal, bend it into an A frame, and hit the top with the maul. The maul with slide off the side, and do little damage. Plate armor is designed the same way, so that if you get hit in the shoulder with a hammer, it'll slide off your pauldron.

However, to address the fact that certain types of armor work better against certain types of attack you should introduce damage types and specific armor classes. I.e. Piercing, Slashing, Bashing, the big three. Chainmail would have a high AC against slashing, not so good against piercing, and damn near nothing to bashing. Plate would work well against everything.

[DeathCow]

get a piece of sheet metal, bend it into an A frame, and hit the top with the maul. The maul with slide off the side, and do little damage. Plate armor is designed the same way, so that if you get hit in the shoulder with a hammer, it'll slide off your pauldron.

However, to address the fact that certain types of armor work better against certain types of attack you should introduce damage types and specific armor classes. I.e. Piercing, Slashing, Bashing, the big three. Chainmail would have a high AC against slashing, not so good against piercing, and damn near nothing to bashing. Plate would work well against everything.

O thats a good idea.  No wonder lots of fantasy MMORPGS use it.

[Reece]

I would like to see armour truly affect your combat. I mean not only is Plate armour heavy, but it is extremly hard to move in. I think players wearing heavier armour such as chainmail, scalemail, and platemail should get swing penalties for more than jsut the weight of the armour.
In fact, noone in platemail should ever be quick and deadly. I would describe it as  steamroller deadly.

[lumikant]

Chainmail and splintmail dont actually have any negative effects other than their weight. The period plate armors were also relatively easy to move in, although I can see not allowing the qnd bonus while wearing it.

[DeathCow]

Realism is a great thing.  However it can also be over done.  The game does need to be balanced, so adjusting combat values for certain armour types is a possibility but I'm not going to go over board on that.  The key word is balanced, not nerfed.

[Reece]

Agreed. But plate classes are very powerful as it is. Most defense, most hp, and good damage.
As it is a warrior, cleric, or paly will out level and out kill anything else until your so high it doesnt matter what class you are. The only place they are weak is in pvp against a sneaker and only if he is halfway descent at running and bs'ing, because once you smash him he is dead. Caster usually cant stand more than one round of combat. so if they dont get a status on them they have lost, and since most boards fix surprise casting. And on to another point. Suprise casting should be in the game. I mean like it was meant to be there where you dont have to exploit a bug to use it. Why cant a mage cast a spell on someone unaware? Mages traditionally have been able to prepare spells where all that needs to be done is execute a command word, some spells dont even require words just thought, and others have been completly reagent based not need any spoken words. It just seems that in mud all spells are compicated rituals where everyone knows exactly what your doing.

[DeathCow]

Agreed. But plate classes are very powerful as it is. Most defense, most hp, and good damage.
As it is a warrior, cleric, or paly will out level and out kill anything else until your so high it doesnt matter what class you are.

Right but it would be best to address this issue through content and adjusting other classes.  If i made areas with highly magical monsters plate users would be at a disadvantage because their combat is effected by their armour, where everyone else would be dishing out their already higher damage rounds.  Witchhunters could even be able to out level warriors.

The only place they are weak is in pvp against a sneaker and only if he is halfway descent at running and bs'ing, because once you smash him he is dead. Caster usually cant stand more than one round of combat. so if they dont get a status on them they have lost, and since most boards fix surprise casting. And on to another point. Suprise casting should be in the game. I mean like it was meant to be there where you dont have to exploit a bug to use it. Why cant a mage cast a spell on someone unaware? Mages traditionally have been able to prepare spells where all that needs to be done is execute a command word, some spells dont even require words just thought, and others have been completly reagent based not need any spoken words. It just seems that in mud all spells are compicated rituals where everyone knows exactly what your doing.

The most recent bbs I played on I played a thief and I remained fairly compeditive because I used their abilities.  I robbed ganghouses and I used their pvp abilities to the fullest.  I leveled up quickly because of my tiny chart, and as such my exp was in general competitive rank wise with other people that started around the same time I did.  This experience made me realise that theives really arent as weak as I had thought before, they just can't be played in the same way you would play most of the other classes.  I don't have anything against surprise rounds.  I don't see why they aren't in the game, other than the blatent issues with high level pvp.  This could be adjusted rather easily by giving players large HP amounts and monsters high damage attacks.  If we increased player hps by 100% and monster min and max attacks by 100% high level pvp wouldnt be as much of an issue, although this isnt a good answer for the problem as this would effect players in many negitive ways.  We could adjust other aspects too to try to make things somewhat more balanced after doing that, for example making DR 2x more effective against monsters and doubling the effectiveness of healing spells.

[Reece]

LOL had an idea make some areas with -encumb spells thatd really fuck em up.

Edit

WTFBBQ i cant move and only have 2 swings.

[Valentine]

Generally speaking, negative effects are in place for, yes, realism, but also because there is something really good about the item.

Yes, heavy armor might cost you some dexterity (which would theoretically affect dodge and attack ability), but it'll absorb a hell of a lot more damage. Also, in a party this person would need to be healed less often. Any perceived deficit in attack ability could be made up with a better weapon (greater damage per hit to make up for less attacks per round). It'd just be an option if he/she is believes the benefits outweigh the cost--the benefit being a character wearing heavy enough armor could traipse across the realm and ignore half the beasties encountered in the interest of getting somewhere quickly.

Not that platemail-bearing fighters traipse. I'm just saying...