General Survey: What exp percentage would you give to each class and race.

[Rorik]

I really like the idea of giving Gypsies a dodge bonus.  They can't heal, so their defense is already a lot less than that of a Missionary or even a Ranger with its rudimentary healing abilities. 

Most of the exp table suggestions made by DC look pretty good.  I think Warriors should be boosted a tad, seeing as how plate is so dominant.  Their ability to use most weapons also suggests a slight boost.

I also dig the increased combat for Thieves.. makes them a bit more playable in a non-pvp realm. 

Not sure about giving Mystics kai-3 and dropping their chart.  That seems a little backwards to me.. I know swan is useless after a certain point, but that's still a lot of kai to keep all your powers and whatnot up.

[DeathCow]

Oh the kai-1-2-3 w/e is just suppose to be w/e mystics currently have.

[SluTFisHy]

Deathcow i agree with EVERYTHING fro myour post except Rangers in chain.

Rangers are pretty powerful IMO. and being a stealth race and hunter of the woods, noones jumping tree to tree in chainmail.

and its just too much... period.. ouch.. rangers have always been a way powerful class.

[DeathCow]

 I think rangers generally go for a dodge build don't they?  I've never really thought of them as over powered..Although 2-handed weapons become powerful toward the end of the game.

[Rorik]

I think rangers generally go for a dodge build don't they?  I've never really thought of them as over powered..Although 2-handed weapons become powerful toward the end of the game.

It would probably depend on what type of Ranger you play... an Elvish race might be more inclined to dodge and a Dwarf/Kang-type would probably be more built to hold the heavier dragon leather while still staying Light.  As for them being overpowered, I think they're almost underpowered for their chart.  No leather class should be 250%, and their magic sucks.. You've gotta be near level 35-40 to hold prow decently, not to mention using mend will drain your mana quite quickly.  Their combat and ability to use 2h do make up for a lot, though.  Anyway, this is kinda movin off topic.. I just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in because, well.. that's what I do.

[SluTFisHy]

  No leather class should be 250%, and their magic sucks.. You've gotta be near level 35-40 to hold prow decently, not to mention using mend will drain your mana quite quickly.  Their combat and ability to use 2h do make up for a lot, though.

Dood ur crazy, their magis is ne of hte best in game.

They get armour spells, HEAL spells, and resistance spells in one bundle.... WTF are u an idiot? shitty spells?
barkskin, resist fire, ANTIDOTE, Freedom? Rapid healing? Mend? uhh starlight? ENTANGLE?

You are a nub. Im sorry but you are. Rangers spell combination is WAY powerful. they are an ultimate PVP AND script/pve class, heals, armour, hold spells, freedom spells cure poison. man.. they are the shit.

and yes combat 4 with 2 handed weapons MORE THEN MAKES UP FOR ANY OF THEIR LOSSES..... Wow!

get real... lol

[Rorik]

Dood ur crazy, their magis is ne of hte best in game.

They get armour spells, HEAL spells, and resistance spells in one bundle.... WTF are u an idiot? shitty spells?
barkskin, resist fire, ANTIDOTE, Freedom? Rapid healing? Mend? uhh starlight? ENTANGLE?

Yeah, mend is awesome.  It caps at 27 and it's not going to help you when you fight monsters that can do 200+/round against your leather AC.  There's a reason you don't see Rangers loop solo in places like the Dying Fields.  Yes, elemental resistances are very helpful in certain areas in the game.  Yes, antidote is helpful.  Rhel is great, but if you're going to cast it every 5 minutes you're going to run out of mana soon.  Starlight is moot with gjr's except in the White Dragons.

You are a nub. Im sorry but you are. Rangers spell combination is WAY powerful. they are an ultimate PVP AND script/pve class, heals, armour, hold spells, freedom spells cure poison. man.. they are the shit.

and yes combat 4 with 2 handed weapons MORE THEN MAKES UP FOR ANY OF THEIR LOSSES..... Wow!

They are not the ultimate script class, especially solo.  Yes, they are useful for PvP.  But don't try to pass off mend as a great healing spell and leather as good armor.  You're the same guy that cries about chainmail DR being low for Warlocks, yet you defend Rangers by saying they have great armor?  I suppose you're going to tell me Paladins' magic is way powerful, too.. major healing, prev, cure and site are about the only spells you'll ever use.  They don't get entangle, but they get plate.. I'll take that any day, especially on a lower exp chart.  

I never said Rangers were weak and worthless.  I just said I thought they were underpowered for their chart and explained why.  You can feel free to call me a nub or noob or whatever, that's the glory of the internet.. but it doesn't do much to refute my argument or solidify yours.

[SluTFisHy]

Sure it does, everything you just said was pointless.

You can whine about any class and their shortcomings, rangers have far less then any class.

And scripting solo, MOST classes need a script partner that is NOT a plate wearer. (at least until some point in leveling)
Rangers, certainly do just fine solo trust me.

I never said anything about mend being the "greatest healing spell ever" Mystics get "swan" which heals half what mend does, and u dont hear them bitching. reason? cause they are glad they get healing period.
*Having a heal spell for a warrior type AT ALL is fantastic. Dont just bitch because it doesnt heal 200 hps. that's stupid and far overpowered.
**Anyone can bitch about not being able to heal against monsters that do 200+ dmg a round. NOT JUST RANGERS. God u are a nub. even responding to this hurts my head.

I never once cried about DR being low on warlocks, I stated the obvious, "that is one of the shortcomings of BEING a warlock"
please make sure you know what your talking about when u type next time.
I also NEVER said rangers leather armour is "GREAT" i just said thats part of being a ranger. There are some aspects of a class that NEED to be looked at and worked on. On a ranger, IMO*, armour does *Not. If we change everyones class to what we "want" outside of whats "fair and balanced" then we will end up giving every class platemail and max hp's. It's stupid. go play on an edited board then.

Please stop arguing your point to me, I see your side of the argument from your pespective already, and I have come the the conclusion you ate paint chips as a child. good day ;)

[Rorik]

Sure it does, everything you just said was pointless.

You can whine about any class and their shortcomings, rangers have far less then any class.

Have you ever seen a Paladin?  Or a Half Ogre Mage with a blackwood staff?  Rangers are good, yes.. and most classes have the potential to be good, as long as you play it right and gear it right.

And scripting solo, MOST classes need a script partner that is NOT a plate wearer. (at least until some point in leveling)
Rangers, certainly do just fine solo trust me.

I'm aware Rangers do fine.. I've played a few myself.  And when it comes time to level past 45, and you start playing in areas that deal serious damage, Rangers are on the short end of the stick since their healing is inadequate and their armor doesn't allow them to compensate.

I never said anything about mend being the "greatest healing spell ever" Mystics get "swan" which heals half what mend does, and u dont hear them bitching. reason? cause they are glad they get healing period.
*Having a heal spell for a warrior type AT ALL is fantastic. Dont just bitch because it doesnt heal 200 hps. that's stupid and far overpowered.
**Anyone can bitch about not being able to heal against monsters that do 200+ dmg a round. NOT JUST RANGERS. God u are a nub. even responding to this hurts my head.

I didn't insinuate you said mend was awesome.  I was making a point that it isn't all that great, especially when dealing with mobs that do massive damage, and I don't think anyone other than you drew the conclusion that I'm saying everyone should have a spell that does.  Classes with higher AC (and lower charts) will not have to deal with that problem.

I never once cried about DR being low on warlocks, I stated the obvious, "that is one of the shortcomings of BEING a warlock"
please make sure you know what your talking about when u type next time.

That is hilarious, coming from you.  Just thought I'd interject that.

I also NEVER said rangers leather armour is "GREAT" i just said thats part of being a ranger.

When you were listing benefits, you listed armor.  If you didn't think that was a benefit, you shouldnt've included it in your list.

There are some aspects of a class that NEED to be looked at and worked on. On a ranger, IMO*, armour does *Not. If we change everyones class to what we "want" outside of whats "fair and balanced" then we will end up giving every class platemail and max hp's. It's stupid. go play on an edited board then.

I'm not saying everyone should have plate and max hp's.  I never even insinuated that.  My point has been that since classes that do have big hp and do have big ac fare much better in most areas of the game, Rangers pay a little bit too much when it comes to their exp chart.

Please stop arguing your point to me, I see your side of the argument from your pespective already, and I have come the the conclusion you ate paint chips as a child. good day ;)

For the last time, my point was Rangers pay too much for their skill set.  And I'm also finished.  And if you're going to insult someone, at least TRY to be original.  Or funny.

[MudHunter]

I still dont see where anyone would think that rangers have great, or even good, defense at all. They are the stereotypical glass cannon.

Slutfishy is on the good drugs

[DeathCow]

I take what people say with a grain of salt.  The defensive ability has been well documented, people have created very well thought out posts in the past about balance issues and supported it with builds and statistics.  As for a rangers ability to do damage, and other two handed classes its honestly a little overboard when it comes to scripting. A small example,   a storm giant has 750 hps.  A good avg round from any high level class is going to take 2 rounds to kill a storm giant, so an avg round of 375->749 is ~=.  Meaning that over time, 375 avg round and a 749 avg round will kill close to the same amount of giants.  This means that the exp rate in the area will be decided by defense.  Of course its entirely possible that rangers can, and do get a avg round greater than 750, but at the cost of defense.

[interchange]

Rangers are almost useless solo.  The only way they can get decent defense is through dodge, and you rely heavily on lims and high level gear and won't approach a mystic or ninja or bard or gypsy in these builds.  The other options are to go DR and script the galleon or go resistance and script dragons -- whoopee.

They do have some advantages for PVP (stealth, tracking), but these abilities are antiquated in our high-level high-damage scripting game.

Compare them to a paladin.  They really don't win in any category except elemental resistance.

[Zetetic]

Reading through this thread I have noticed very different opinions that seem to be based heavily on classes abilities in PVE, with much less thought given to PVP. I have always found the 250% exp table for a ranger, while incredibly expensive, to be fair because while in PVE it cannot stack up to say, a Paladin, it more than makes up for it in PVP abilities (the combination of supernatural stealth, big combat damage, freedom, entangle, a couple of damage over time spells and prowess/camo can be rather devastating). If you look at the class from a non-pvp realms perspective however, the class is worth no where near as much.

I suggest that perhaps people need to suggest an exp % chart for both non-pvp and pvp realms. It seems rather ridiculous to me, but if you don't have pvp, you don't have half the game, and some classes become nowhere near as interesting (Does anyone at all go gaunt on non-pvp?).

I would love for Rangers to be given chainmail, but honestly I also think that would make the class hideously over-powered. So do it, for me :)

For those that don't know, I was Kqaltha on the PVP realm, Kang Ranger, level 63 before the crash.

[DeathCow]

I'd have to disagree that PVP is half the game.  I mean, do ya really spend 12 hours a day hunting down other players?

I'd say the game is 50% afk, 50% atks.  You can then break up atks into Exping, Boss Hunting, PVP.

I mean I could make almost the same arguement you made for missionarys  (the combination of supernatural stealth, medium combat damage, big healing, curp, hold person, a couple of curse and bless spells and zeal/glit can be rather devastating)

[Thergin]

Lets not forget tracking please. 250% exp table was before necko, ninja and rangers only ones with tracking. As far as rangers being a glass cannon thats a little silly, they have healing, rapid healing, skin, anti.

Rangers get nice hp roll 5-9

You cant dodge spells.

So glass cannons, are bard, thief, gypsy,
mage and priest at low levels.

Low AC, low hps.