Now an edited board on MudList

[Elpres]

The concern was that the top 3 in non-pvp have way too much exp and so because noone else (on regmud I guess) is making that amount of exp/hr then this must be an edited board. this was brought up because there is a huge gap between 1-3 and 4.

[DeathCow]

This is caused by ignorance and little more.  Its different versions and there is an easy way to make lots of exp in some versions of majormuds 1.11p dats.  I posted details on how to make this amount of exp on all of the important forums for majormud years ago.  Like most of the bugs I've posted it was adjusted in a later update, fixing this was one of the last content changes made to MMUD.  Who runs mudlist? I'd gladly let them know how nd why they are wrong.

[Chupon]

Theres actually a lot more difference between the rest of the top 10 and legit mud. Regen being higher in a lot of areas makes some decent differences in exp rates from majormud to greatermud, but the lack of "Coin bug" pretty much balances it out in my opinion. Basically someone can have a level 28 half ogre bard with -encumberance from sharing coins to the point of about 98% dodge. This is not possible on greatermud nor is the giant backstab damage the same bug when taken further can create. Almost every majormud board ive played on in the last 10 years has had over 5 people doing that at all times and "Sanity's End" is considered a legit board but they all have negative encumberance and dodge near 100%. (How is that legit) :). If the mudlist guy wants to be fair he should put it in its own catagory, a greatermud section. Mostly just because in legit people dont make 2.7 mil in saracens or 1.1 mil in mithril mines. over 1.5 mil on top of mountain in a NON-LAIR loop between stones and storms. Theres enough differences that you could call it different but its not in any way edited. And the script in the easy trainer is totally a metro thing, you can do it on majormud just the same as dc said. Only reason its so lucritive on gmud is because you can train much higher and actually watch your char still grow passed 75. Training to high levels is also another thing that seperates gmud from mmud atm. But still not an "Edited" board just a totally different engine.

[DeathCow]

I'd agree with ya there, and be happy with having a section for Gmud.  Not happy with being grouped in with some of those other edited bbses though.

[Teferi]

Allow me to explain this since the term "Edited" is broad, ambigous, and exists only due to lack of a better term.  I posted (a while back) on the site my unofficial, official definition of an "Edited" board.  Practically, there is no way to police all "legit" boards.  Who defines that anyway?  Turbo's definition is that you are registered with Metro.  I say piss on metro.  The idea of a "stock" vs an "edited" classification is to, in some arbitrary manner, attempt to rank players on an apples and apples basis.  The vast array of sysops, realm settings, mudop personalities, make it impossible to do this.  The perfect example lies in The Keep.  A non-afk scripting board.  Clearly, those players deserve more weight than someone who scripts 3 characters with sys gotos and access of the encumbrance bug.  So what I am going for is relative balance between the realms that have ranked players.  I do not penalize greatermud (or others that have "fixed" regen problems, Draggonlance) for the increased regen.  The line in the case of the non-pvp greatermud is not even close.  Players making 30 mil/hour is not even close to balanced.  Regardless if its a "stock" feature.  You might as well just give them an @addexp command.  I realize that not everyone will be happy.  I dont really care.  I expect the coders involved in this project understand how not everyone will be happy about everything, so thats just the way it is.
-For the record, I know that other boards have players that are trained past 80.  I know that sometimes sysops regen bosses and hand out extra limiteds etc.  I cant police that.  The overall balance is the goal. 

From the non-pvp data:
1     HEADBAND LifeBull     Ninja     c a p s & SPACES     17,347,204,248     29,827
2    Chupon BarnBuMufn    Missionary    -=Fashion Barn=-    15,063,480,606    29,811
3    Lyrical Gangsta    Bard    Shadow Spawn    14,405,987,213    29,694
4    Winterhawk    Paladin    Tainted Saints    4,715,475,370    2,999

pvp data:
542     1     Miyamoto Musashi     Ninja     TTG     2,768,865,563     64     2,383

Its not even close. 

[schwagg]

From the non-pvp data:
1     HEADBAND LifeBull     Ninja     c a p s & SPACES     17,347,204,248     29,827
2    Chupon BarnBuMufn    Missionary    -=Fashion Barn=-    15,063,480,606    29,811
3    Lyrical Gangsta    Bard    Shadow Spawn    14,405,987,213    29,694
4    Winterhawk    Paladin    Tainted Saints    4,715,475,370    2,999

pvp data:
542     1     Miyamoto Musashi     Ninja     TTG     2,768,865,563     64     2,383

Its not even close. 

Perhaps if you were better informed on the subject, you'd realize the spot isn't even accessible till 65. This obviously makes this erroneous comparision-and the idea that it implies-completely false.

You might also take note of the fact that MMUD's broken exp tables are fixed in Greatermud, so your level charts are totally inaccurate for this engine.

The line in the case of the non-pvp greatermud is not even close.  Players making 30 mil/hour is not even close to balanced.  Regardless if its a "stock" feature.  You might as well just give them an @addexp command.

I am going to assume you have at least above average smarts due to my appreciation of your website and it's concept. If you have such a big deal with scripting the easy or hard trainers, then take it up with Metro and let me know when they get back to you. Greatermud deserves it's own section for many reasons, but for you to pick this to remove anyone from the list isn't kosher.

You cannot call foul simply because you're ignorant of a well-known fact. Continuing to do so would make you a douchebag.

[Demtri]

From the non-pvp data:
1     HEADBAND LifeBull     Ninja     c a p s & SPACES     17,347,204,248     29,827
2    Chupon BarnBuMufn    Missionary    -=Fashion Barn=-    15,063,480,606    29,811
3    Lyrical Gangsta    Bard    Shadow Spawn    14,405,987,213    29,694
4    Winterhawk    Paladin    Tainted Saints    4,715,475,370    2,999

pvp data:
542     1     Miyamoto Musashi     Ninja     TTG     2,768,865,563     64     2,383

Well I have been searching the topic and I must say that it is not a well known fact; this is able to be done.  But as everyone else has said we need our own category. We are not an edited mud; we are not a mud that runs on WG, at least not to my knowledge.   We are *Special* but to call us edited is an insult to the hard work that has been done. 
Second. It is an insult to the board and to the players who are smart enough to pull it off, that does not make us edited.  Clearly the top 4 players on this board are very experienced.

Since I have come to this board I have found the wealth of knowledge on the board, unlike any other board I have ever played on.  So I say if you call us edited, then we should have our own class, or put us back to a stock mud and let the other fools wonder and come check it out.

[DeathCow]

Well I have been searching the topic and I must say that it is not a well known fact; this is able to be done.  But as everyone else has said we need our own category. We are not an edited mud; we are not a mud that runs on WG, at least not to my knowledge.   We are *Special* but to call us edited is an insult to the hard work that has been done. 
Second. It is an insult to the board and to the players who are smart enough to pull it off, that does not make us edited.  Clearly the top 4 players on this board are very experienced.

Since I have come to this board I have found the wealth of knowledge on the board, unlike any other board I have ever played on.  So I say if you call us edited, then we should have our own class, or put us back to a stock mud and let the other fools wonder and come check it out.

I posted information on how to script this area with stealth and non-stealth characters on mudinfo, mudcentral, and mmb back in august 2004.

[Demtri]

DeathCow.
I know you posted the information. The information. Ive seen it. its just now people don't pay attention to that.  Nor are they willing to try anything new.

[schwagg]

Mudlist switched the Non-Pvp realm to edited, and left the PvP realm listed as stock. Cleary the site owner is a totaly fucking idiot.

[DeathCow]

Its moronic...his arguments are also moronic.  He is moronic.  And don't tell me I didn't get ALOT of response to that post. I got almost the same as I did too the zanthus post..  Its 2010 I'm still just saving end game for gmud.


I  can log onto any bbs on his so called not editted list and make whatever exp rate is needed to make it "not balanced."

[Demtri]

Agreed.

[Vitoc]

Let me get this straight... You're going to mark non-pvp as edited and pvp as not edited when they're using the exact same content?

I think your site is pretty slick and I'm impressed.  I'm willing to discuss certain things with you and answer any any questions, but we're not "cheating" by any stretch of the imagination and as DC mentioned (who knows better than anybody in this community) this kind of exp gain can be exploited in any stock MajorMUD realm.  It's a content issue, not an engine issue.

Please work with us on this.  I believe it will serve your site and both our interests better in the longrun. ;)

[schwagg]

Obviously he and/or his friends play on the pvp mud. Why else would he make such a peculiar decision?

[Teferi]

Let me get this straight... You're going to mark non-pvp as edited and pvp as not edited when they're using the exact same content?

I think your site is pretty slick and I'm impressed.  I'm willing to discuss certain things with you and answer any any questions, but we're not "cheating" by any stretch of the imagination and as DC mentioned (who knows better than anybody in this community) this kind of exp gain can be exploited in any stock MajorMUD realm.  It's a content issue, not an engine issue.

Please work with us on this.  I believe it will serve your site and both our interests better in the longrun. ;)

I do not think that I made myself clear earlier. 
1. The two classifications, Edited vs Stock, were coined in the beginning when my intention was to separate realms based on this alone.  However, due to such a vast majority of rules it is not that simple.  I am an idiot, lazy, a moron (as pointed out by your colleagues) and lliterate.  Those reaons are why I have left these poorly chosen terms unmodified.  I will try to find the post I made about the definition of Edited and place it back on the site (this was posted months ago).
2. Sure anyone can make X exp on any system.  The fact is other sysops do not allow this (at least in the obvious manner that has occurred on the nonpvp realm).   If there are other realms with players making 30mil/hour please point them out.
3. If someone on the PVP site (or any other board listed as "Stock") begins scripting cloaked, it too will be placed in the same column.

This was not done as a shot to the developers (I have great admiration and respect for taking on a challenge of this magnitude).  In the "Edited" column realms are is in a class by themselves because the rules of the realm make it non-comparable to the other systems ranked.  I will be glad to entertain a change in the terms Edited vs  Stock because those terms are not accurate and not encompassing. 

This is really a conspiracy to keep the Care Bear NON-PVPers down.