This really seems broken...

[Gardner Denver]

I can only display the information that is sent to my program.  Stat bonuses are not sent so I can't include them in the display.

You also have to remember that he probably has every druid buff in the game running on him, along with any buffs that the 2 people who were with him could cast.  Since there is no 10 spell limit (something I strongly disagree with for bless spells by the way) it allows your character to perform far better than regular mud allows.

Some may see this as a beneift, I see this as something that further unbalanced the combat system.  But that's just my $0.02.

[Prescience]

Does combat-5 give any accuracy or damage bonuses over lesser combat classes or does combat-5 simply make the character reach the qnd cap more quickly?

For example, if a HoG mage is +20 qnd with a club and a HoG witchy is +20 qnd with a club and both characters are naked, would average rounds be the same?

[Rage]

The responses on this post are just lame.  This is a beta realm...for testing and finding problems.  Things such as a druid dodging crazy amounts and out meleeing a witchunter.

Gard, your response of witchunters just cant win against druids is a bad one.

Rethink about the idea of what you're trying to accomplish with a beta realm and help fix the problem rather than just say "thats the way it is"

Ask yourself should a caster 3 class beat a class designed to kill casters???

[Void]

Just curious on the topic - is there a combat penalty for dwarf not having 120 str swinging tsm?  I believe that's the weap.  Regardless there is something unbalanced there.   

[DeathCow]

The responses on this post are just lame.  This is a beta realm...for testing and finding problems.  Things such as a druid dodging crazy amounts and out meleeing a witchunter.

Thank god you were here to continue that trend!

Gard, your response of witchunters just cant win against druids is a bad one.

It is also a response that you completely made up.

Rethink about the idea of what you're trying to accomplish with a beta realm and help fix the problem rather than just say "thats the way it is"

Ask yourself should a caster 3 class beat a class designed to kill casters???

 Everyone thinks that any event in the game that isn't in their favor proves that their character is under powered and blah blah blah. egocentric.. blahblahhdsa

Anyway..if you go back and look you just posted a cap and expected everyone to read it through your eyes.  You didn't even say anything but HEY this seems broken!  Well wtf, YOU ARE RIGHT..party defense should be enabled by default. :/

Are you thinking that a level 62 druid should never crit 3/3 swings?  Are you thinking that when a druid attacks a WH that his crit rate should decrease?  Dodge rate decrease?

WHs are aweful btw They have been since MOD..3? 4? They just don't excellent with the current endgame content.

Anyway..you're the on playing the WH, why don't you tell us what they need.

BAH!

[kalus]

Can we get some kind of acknowledgment that dodge (and the entire combat system for that matter ) is still seriously messed up? Even more so than regular mud, which is quite an achievement.

There are numerous captures in the bug reports section of mages, druids etc been basically unhitabble. Yet they seem to be ignored.

http://www.greatermud.com/forums/index.php?topic=2571.0
http://www.greatermud.com/forums/index.php?topic=2727.0
http://www.greatermud.com/forums/index.php?topic=2816.0

[DeathCow]

No man, combat is perfect?!?!?! Wtf game are you playing? Of course its not right.

Dodge hasn't been ignored its changed several times, its just not capping out correctly atm..I think.

Dodge is(in MMUD) exactly like AC except that it scales against ACC, while AC is linear.

Either way I've not tested dodge recently, it may be fine now, or it could still be broken..I dunno.

[Gardner Denver]

Can we get some kind of acknowledgment that dodge (and the entire combat system for that matter ) is still seriously messed up? Even more so than regular mud, which is quite an achievement.

There are numerous captures in the bug reports section of mages, druids etc been basically unhitabble. Yet they seem to be ignored.

We've said, repeatedly, that the combat system is still messed up.  And at least twice in this very topic it's been said by developers that dodge is not right.

So, once again:

COMBAT IS BROKEN.  DODGE IS MESSED UP.  DRUIDS OWN WITCHUNTERS EVEN WHEN IT WORKS RIGHT. WE WILL FIX IT AT SOME POINT IN TIME.


Can you hear me now?  Good!

[kalus]

Thanks, I feel better now

[schwagg]

We've said, repeatedly, that the combat system is still messed up.  And at least twice in this very topic it's been said by developers that dodge is not right.

So, once again:

COMBAT IS BROKEN.  DODGE IS MESSED UP.  DRUIDS OWN WITCHUNTERS EVEN WHEN IT WORKS RIGHT. WE WILL FIX IT AT SOME POINT IN TIME.


Can you hear me now?  Good!

CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY?

[Prescience]

I think the point that Rage is trying to make is that a combat-2 class (I think Druid is combat-2?) is out-meleeing a combat-5 class.

However, there are a few points to consider:

1. Will was pretty much 10-spelled with druid/priest/bard buffs, should blesses make druids better combatants than unblessed witchunters -- who am I to say? Maybe give witchhunters the ability to de-bless targets to level the playing field (like the entrance to fallen angel/dark mage/zanthus etc.)?

2. My understanding is that combat-5 has NO BENEFIT over combat-1, 2, 3 ,4 EXCEPT that they reach the qnd cap faster. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I believe that the combat ranking system needs to adjusted .. give combat 5,4,3 etc. crit/acc/dmg bonuses/penalties based on the tier.

3. (This is a bit of an aside) Under current game settings, magic users own non-magic users. I think sleep, and stun need a diminishing returns component. If a mage wants to sleep someone for 1 round...fine. But to keep someone perma-stunned based on timing is ridiculous. There should be a formula that makes it more difficult to repeatedly sleep/stun someone based on MR and recent successful sleep/stuns.

Right now I would argue that witchhunters are pretty unplayable because they really do suck at high levels. I genuinely doubt it is the goal of the developers to sustain an unplayable class so my thoughts above are just suggestions to improve witchies lest no one play them again.

~Cornellian

[DeathCow]

1. Will was pretty much 10-spelled with druid/priest/bard buffs, should blesses make druids better combatants than unblessed witchunters -- who am I to say? Maybe give witchhunters the ability to de-bless targets to level the playing field (like the entrance to fallen angel/dark mage/zanthus etc.)?

Eh..he was at +34 crits in the screenie from gardner...3 swings 3 crits..Shrug.  I don't think its that outrageous that it happened...

2. My understanding is that combat-5 has NO BENEFIT over combat-1, 2, 3 ,4 EXCEPT that they reach the qnd cap faster. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You're wrong

I believe that the combat ranking system needs to adjusted .. give combat 5,4,3 etc. crit/acc/dmg bonuses/penalties based on the tier.

It doesn't need to be changed, at least not based on *this*

3. (This is a bit of an aside) Under current game settings, magic users own non-magic users. I think sleep, and stun need a diminishing returns component. If a mage wants to sleep someone for 1 round...fine. But to keep someone perma-stunned based on timing is ridiculous. There should be a formula that makes it more difficult to repeatedly sleep/stun someone based on MR and recent successful sleep/stuns.

Basically any spell with a duration that is evil in combat should be automatically resisted if it already is in effect.

Right now I would argue that witchhunters are pretty unplayable because they really do suck at high levels. I genuinely doubt it is the goal of the developers to sustain an unplayable class so my thoughts above are just suggestions to improve witchies lest no one play them again.

~Cornellian

WHs are a mediocre class, They are not the worst class in the game by far, and they have unique abilities.  They are completely playable at every level range in the game and even competitive during a large range of these levels.

Without changing WHs at all they would be more useful simply by increasing the frequency of spells used by monster or by increasing the damage of spell casters.

A great deal of their *eh* ness is content based.  Towards end game, however,  they tend to cap out their capabilities and other less melee minded classes catch up...and surpass even because they swing better weapons.

IN mmud a WH can actually swing around into the extreme damage range at endgame levels by switching to a 5 swing bash with some of the larger weapons, something other classes cannot do.

[Prescience]

'Eh..he was at +34 crits in the screenie from gardner...3 swings 3 crits..Shrug.  I don't think its that outrageous that it happened...'

I am not arguing that it is outrageous that it happened, I am asking if class-balance between witchies and druids (or other spellcasters) needs to be reviewed. Again, a buffed druid can outdmg and kill an unbuffed witchie in hand-to-hand combat. Is that fair? It might be, but it also might need to be tweaked.

'You're wrong'

Can you elaborate? If I have a HoG mage that is qnd with a q-staff and a HoG witchie that is qnd with a q-staff and both are the same level, will they do equal avg rounds or does the witchie have an advantage of which I am unaware?

'Basically any spell with a duration that is evil in combat should be automatically resisted if it already is in effect.'

That is fine, but mages/bards and can time it such that they recast the spell as soon as the duration is over and before the next combat-round begins. Thus a player becomes perma-stunned and unable to fight back. I think a diminishing returns element needs to be added to prevent the above scenario from occurring as often as it does.

[DeathCow]

Hehe..here's some ancient shit...I don't think these are real accurate..but EH..combat level is used in ACC


player->dodge =
( ( ( ( 15 * player->dodge2 ) +
( abs( 2 * player->agility + player->charisma - 150 ) / 4 ) +
( 2 * player->agility + player->charisma - 150 ) / 4 ) + 1 ) *
( 50 + player->level ) / 100 );
Uh.....rofl.
player->acc =
( ( player->combat - 1 ) * 5 ) +
( player->combat * player->level / 5 ) +
( ( 2 * player->agility + player->intellect - 150 ) / 2 );
haha...this is str then agi now.  I think combat is Combat+2..so a hunter is (7-1)*5=30..

Uh...I'm not sure how well general resistances are working.  I've been pvping for 16 yers now...timing spells like stun or entangle has also been a tactic, it takes skill to pull it off though, and its hardly perfected.  Except by me.

And this..business

Again, a buffed druid can outdmg and kill an unbuffed witchie in hand-to-hand combat. Is that fair? It might be, but it also might need to be tweaked.

What actually being complained about is that Wills MAXIMUM damage was more than Rage's MINIMUM damage.  If they wanna go stand in the arena and swing at each other for awhile we might prove a problem.  A snipet of what appears to be the extremes doesn't warrant this conversation.  I don't play a druid, or a hunter. I've no idea what goes on in your day to day in gmud...

So really why are the people who are involved here asking me if WHs need to be fixed...why don't you figure out what your grief is and tell us whats going on.

BAH!!

[Thergin]

Druids are one of the strongest classes in pvp.

You are trying to balance 190% exp table vs 130%?

Witchunters are missing good nonmagic item selection. All other classes got stupidly powerfull items and witchys got close to nothing.

I was under the impression that combat class 1-5 did effect accuracy. Witchunter vs Mage swinging same weapon max qnd 5 swing, should have accuracy differences.