Top list updating / exp tracking

[Gardner Denver]

Gard- "All it takes is a few well placed bots and you'll be tracked within 30 minutes tops.  I've seen it done far to many times for yall to tell me it's not doable."

I'm curious where you've seen this done before?  Has Greatermud used a delayed update to top list before?  And even still, it's not as easily trackable if it' isn't updated instantly per each kill / exp tick like it is now.  Sure people will be able to track exp/hr but it'll surely make it more difficult, specially if a person chooses to script an area that mobs give different experience as opposed to scripting an area where mobs all give the same experience.

I haven't done anything about it because I can not tell who is and who is not using these bots.  They are not related to the player manager, they are using just the top player list inside the game for the most part.  Most of these are very simplistic bots that strictly track exp earned. 

So we set the update frequency to... let's stick with the 15 minute example.  So every 15 minutes I see player x has earned 3k exp.  There are several places he could be, and I'd have to go check each one of them.  This is what everyone wants.   Now obviously I do not want to spend my time hunting you down or I would not have made a lame ass exp tracker to do it.  So what do I do now?  Well that's easy.  I park a few hidden characters in various places in the realm who do nothing but tell me which direction someone went when they left the room over broadcasts/gangpaths.

So

Player zzyxz earns 3k every 15 minutes, and my zombie bot in Silvermere reported seeing him going N from town square 1 hour ago.  Now how many places do I have to go looking for him?

See how easy that was?

[Gardner Denver]

When we talk about a delayed up date are we saying:

A) I kill a monster worth 100 xp and in 15 minutes you see that 100 xp added to my overall exp.

B) I kill 15 100 xp monsters in 15 minutes and you see a jump of 1500 every 15 minutes that im killing?

B.

[Hydroponic]

So a bot is just a dupe sitting somewhere?

[Hydroponic]

why not just remove top 10? that seems to be the easiest solution to me

[Gardner Denver]

So a bot is just a dupe sitting somewhere?

It doesn't even have to be just sitting somewhere.  All it has to do is notify me if it sees someone, and if it saw them move, what direction they went.

[Gardner Denver]

i cant bite my tongue anymore.  i voted no leave it the fuck alone leave it as it is.

changing shit around to protect the scripters, the game was made that way and ppl take advantage of tracking exp so what anyone can do it, dont change mud this muds already fucked up enuff.

if u wanna do something good for the mud and for the ppl, ditch the 2 item drop.

just let me paint u a picture imagine u setup a poll remove live updates on the top lists or remove the 2 item drop, u better believe the 2 item drop will win by a landslide.

its a god given right to track exp, it still requires math.  i once had to track thundergod and i had to track him in incriments of 6 cuz he was scripting with his 5 dupes, and eventually we figured out where they were, u know how fuckin hard that was? it took effort.

its the way the game was built so leave it alone, it wasnt designed to be used to track exp, but it is what it is.
some genius figured out the idea of exp tracking and now ur gonna take it away from us?

Take everything you just said, swap "item drop" for "tracking exp" and your arguement has no more merit than you are giving to their arguement.  You losing your gear is a big deal to you, them losing exp is a big deal to them.  Personally I would not choose to waste time on this right now but it's not my call.

[Mersinary]

I could really care less about anybody sitting in an area and announcing over br/bg where I'm at and which direction I move in...I can do that simply with a lame message/response in megamud...And I think it's fairly irrelevant regarding tracking exp from top list, I don't even feel this has anything to do with the topic at hand.  Except figuring out how much exp per kill a person is making, and you send a few of your 15 dupes to each area that monsters give so and so experience, trying to find that person.  I dunno man, I feel you're totally off point talking about people sitting in TS and announcing a person is leaving in whatever direction.  With how tracking works on here (track (player), not tracking exp) is even alot easier then tracking exp to find a person.

So I dunno..What's easier and more feasible.  Hitting top 10 and how much exp is gained each from each kill, or tracking exp every 15 minutes to see how much exp is gained over a 15 minute period?  Especially if you're scripting an area that has 3 or more monsters that give different experience.  You're basically only able to try to track them by exp/hr by area.  That can vary by level/class/gear/and if you have healing or not.  Theres alot of variances that can determine exp/hr by area, not all classes are gonna make the same exp/hr in the same area.

Hell...I dont even see why this is a poll.  This should be a given.  The game shouldn't be based on playing like this.  Sure top rank should be a feature and people shouldnt have to worry about others exploiting ways to find where a person is scripting in game just because it's easier.  Everyone uses megamud as is and that's about the easiest the game should be with it.  Megamud basically is majormud/greatermud, nobody wants to sit around hours on end going to kill bosses over and over just to try and get the best exp/hr by hand.  If that was the case then this would/should be a non-scripting board.  And then we wouldn't have to worry as much about people coming to kill scripts cause atleast then we'd be at keys for the most part and possibly be somewhat ready for it.

Also...Where did this "bot" mess even come from?  I can't even say I've heard of anyone on here using some outside source regarding some program tracking peoples experience...Just curious how you know of this and what exactly does it do?  How do you know of this "bot" being used but you dont know who is using it?...I've always tracked experience I guess the old fashion way I guess:

Setting an event to: top 1^M
with a message/response: when "1. President             Ninja      the United States   {1}" = "br {1}^M"
and do the math whenever there is a exp change...

[pentagruel]

I already explained an elementary solution to this problem:

make it so that only the first 2 integers of your exp show up:

If you have 145670 exp, it shows your exp as 140000.

If you have 32,240,530 exp, shows you as 32,000,000

Wiill be impossible to even track exp/hr this way once people get high up.

I think I have the best solution, but it isnt even an option?  Or does my solution fall under remove top lists?


And Gardner, your idea of setting up shadow bots in different places in realm is kinda hard especially if you goto do it in a place like temple in jungle where people often search.   Plus, there are many obscure places in mod9 that noone would ever find you without being able to track exp.  My idea is equivalent to not having a top list but people can still see where they are ranked.  Best of both worlds.

[Gardner Denver]

I think I have the best solution, but it isnt even an option?  Or does my solution fall under remove top lists?

Whatever solution we apply to the realm will be applied to the player manager as well.  I don't want distorted information being sent through the player manager.  That is why I did not include it as an option.

[Darmius]

Does the top command trigger a query for real-time data? or is the top list result cached?

[Gardner Denver]

Does the top command trigger a query for real-time data? or is the top list result cached?

Currently it is real time data.

[Gardner Denver]

Also...Where did this "bot" mess even come from?  I can't even say I've heard of anyone on here using some outside source regarding some program tracking peoples experience...Just curious how you know of this and what exactly does it do?  How do you know of this "bot" being used but you dont know who is using it?...I've always tracked experience I guess the old fashion way I guess:

I know of at least 3 different exp tracker bots that have been written.  Mostly because someone has let it slip that they were using it.  Since I can't emulate players, I can not tell exactly who is using it.  It's all good though.  Nobody seems to believe that there are any, or that they could possibly be any good.  So I won't bother bringing it up again.

[scratacorn]

I exp track your asses all the time, everyone in the top 100 at least.  Gard is right, it doesn't matter what they do, we'll still find you, if it takes a few minutes or a few hours, there are only so many places you people will script and you never change it up.

[Darmius]

Cache the top list. Sync on every 'top' with a 60 second lockout.  During each sync, when each record is updated. Have a % that the record update doesn't actually occur.

Let the user configure the lockout and % drop.

Without a constant time, the result from xp tracking could be fuzzed enough to make it unreliable.

[Miles]

Top experience should be hidden.  

All the cool boards do it.. ;)


...or update at cleanup.  It would be like the BCS polls, everyone waitin for the new ranks to come out at cleanup.


Time delay is lame ... Removing the last few numbers isn't a bad idea, but would still look 'broken' IMHO.   I do agree that the top list was not intended to give people an advantage in finding peoples scripting location, but rather fuel competition.   I feel that the way it currently is set that it actually lowers the level of competition.   Too many long-time "GreaterMud Fans" know all the little quarks and exploits, and it's discouraging for any players that might be mildly interested in GMud.