Vitoc

[Teferi]

Thanks for the updates recently.  I thought at first the +40 stats increase would be lame, but it really morphs it into a new game. 

[Vitoc]

Thanks for the updates recently.  I thought at first the +40 stats increase would be lame, but it really morphs it into a new game.

Gardner talked me into it, but I agree.  CPs are no longer worthless at high levels.  We will see things we've never seen before, both bad and good.  We will try to adjust as people figure out which combinations work best to try to keep some balance while keeping things fun and interesting.

[Stalkerr]

Gardner talked me into it, but I agree.  CPs are no longer worthless at high levels.  We will see things we've never seen before, both bad and good.  We will try to adjust as people figure out which combinations work best to try to keep some balance while keeping things fun and interesting.

+40 cps spits in the face of balance and the only combination is HOG+Your Class of Choice.

[Vitoc]

+40 cps spits in the face of balance and the only combination is HOG+Your Class of Choice.

Care to expand?  Whatever caused 150 strength and health to be "not the best" before should cause 190 strength and health to still be "not the best."  If the higher maxes of agility, intel, willpower, or charm were somehow more desirable with other races, then those same races that got +40 max stats in those categories should still make them more desirable.

There were already strong races and classes.  This simply mixes things up a bit.  Did you enjoy every single lvl 65+ character being a cookie-cutter copy of every instance of that class before it?

Nobody can max their stats right now, and likely not for a long time to come.  Nobody is saying this it the be-all end-all solution or that it doesn't come with some negatives (see: "both bad and good").  We're trying something new and fun.  The thing with GMUD is we have the ability to tweak the engine, whereas MajorMUD can't and won't be changed, ever.

We're going to start trying some new things.  Not everyone will be a fan of every single thing we try.  Give us honest feedback and we'll do the best we can to keep things balanced and fun.

[Gardner Denver]

Hogs are not the top choice in either realm.

PVP


Non PVP

[Stalkerr]

Care to expand?  Whatever caused 150 strength and health to be "not the best" before should cause 190 strength and health to still be "not the best."  If the higher maxes of agility, intel, willpower, or charm were somehow more desirable with other races, then those same races that got +40 max stats in those categories should still make them more desirable.

There were already strong races and classes.  This simply mixes things up a bit.  Did you enjoy every single lvl 65+ character being a cookie-cutter copy of every instance of that class before it?

Nobody can max their stats right now, and likely not for a long time to come.  Nobody is saying this it the be-all end-all solution or that it doesn't come with some negatives (see: "both bad and good").  We're trying something new and fun.  The thing with GMUD is we have the ability to tweak the engine, whereas MajorMUD can't and won't be changed, ever.

We're going to start trying some new things.  Not everyone will be a fan of every single thing we try.  Give us honest feedback and we'll do the best we can to keep things balanced and fun.

Math is op.

[Gardner Denver]

The highest level player on pvp is still over 30 levels away from being able to max out.  The highest level player on non pvp is 11 levels away from being able to max out.  At those levels, playing in stock content, it will still take some time to get the billions and billions of exp that will be required to max out stats.

[Stalkerr]

The highest level player on pvp is still over 30 levels away from being able to max out.  The highest level player on non pvp is 11 levels away from being able to max out.  At those levels, playing in stock content, it will still take some time to get the billions and billions of exp that will be required to max out stats.

The highest str and health race can now max crits.  100% of that races bonus strength gets the over 100 str bonuses.  That race can have 110 willpower and 15 bonus MR.

Simiply put HOGs will have the highest damage per hit the highest accuracy and the highest allowed crit rate coupled with the highest MR possible and in the case of plate wearers be light with 100+ ac.

Basically HOG will be the best of all possible worlds EXCEPT mana rgen and dodge.  The only class that HOG might not be optimal for is druid, but would still out perform other races in every way UNLESS you wanted to roomscript or sneak. 

The problem isnt in the stats themselves, but that the stats are building toward something that has a hardcap. (except str and health that is). 

  There is no way that a flat increase across the board could ever be balanced,  I'd pay careful attention to mins and maxes and raise stats by a percentage rather than a flat number...if this is really the way you want to go.

If you want to give players more play options fix the crit cap so that it makes sense to play something else besides a mystic.

[Torque]

Basically HOG will be the best of all possible worlds EXCEPT mana rgen and dodge. 

who needs to dodge when you have ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY health

[Gnor]

Hogs are not the top choice in either realm.

Your statistics are completely bogus on this. The sun was already setting on the life of both realms (and the vast majority of characters were already created) before the stat changes were even introduced.

I do support the stat changes.

However, it might have been smarter to use a precision approach to keep the differences between the races more defined.

For example, maybe add 40 max stats to the top three stats of that race, but leave the lowest 3 at their normal maxes. This would allow people to improve on their race's strengths, without gaining an untoward amount of extra stats that they are naturally supposed to be deprived of. Here's how this would look on some typical races:

Dark-Elf, Exp: 45%, HP: 0, Str: 40-90, Int: 50-160, Wis: 30-100, Agi: 50-160, Hea: 30-90, Cha: 40-150, Abilities: Illu +80, RaceStealth, Crits +1, Accuracy +3
Dwarf, Exp: 30%, HP: 0, Str: 50-150, Int: 30-90, Wis: 50-160, Agi: 30-90, Hea: 50-160, Cha: 30-85, Abilities: M.R. +10, Illu +75, Encum +20
Half-Ogre, Exp: 30%, HP: 1, Str: 70-190, Int: 20-60, Wis: 25-110, Agi: 20-60, Hea: 60-190, Cha: 25-60, Abilities: M.R. +15, DR +2
Kang, Exp: 35%, HP: 0, Str: 55-160, Int: 30-90, Wis: 45-150, Agi: 30-90, Hea: 50-150, Cha: 30-85, Abilities: ImmuPoison +100, DR +1, AC +5
Nekojin, Exp: 50%, HP: 0, Str: 40-120, Int: 40-120, Wis: 30-90, Agi: 60-170, Hea: 30-80, Cha: 50-150, Abilities: RaceStealth, Illu +50, Tracking, Rfir +10, Rcol -10
(Since Str and Int are tied for 3rd highest on Nekojin, I split the 40 max stats between them)

We can see from these examples that the races retain their real pluses and negatives as well. Since the races are ultimately balanced by exp % against these pluses and minuses, I feel this method would be much more balanced than the current setup.

[Gardner Denver]

Your statistics are completely bogus on this.

My point was that prior to this change, hogs were not the top choice despite their obvious advantages.  My statistics back that claim up.  Since the change was put in there has been no mass conversion to hog either.  Granted some may be waiting to see if we implement a race change or not.

[Gnor]

My point was that prior to this change, hogs were not the top choice despite their obvious advantages.

Duh? The context of the discussion was the affect that the stat changes will have on new character choices, not the characters made 9 months before the change... ::)


Any thoughts on the real meat of my post though, Gardner?

[Gardner Denver]

Duh? The context of the discussion was the affect that the stat changes will have on new character choices, not the characters made 9 months before the change... ::)

I'm looking at the pvp realm, going back to since the changes were put in.  Of the 26 players that have been created, only 5 of them are hogs.

Any thoughts on the real meat of my post though, Gardner?

This is not a permanent change.  This was done to keep the high level players in the non pvp realm interested and playing.  We had many players over there who had already maxed out and had 1000's of cps going to waste.  Bumping all stats by 40 means that now none of them are maxed out.  That was the only reason I requested the change.

[twogirlz]

The impact of 190 str and health over 150 is surprisingly minimal i have done some testing with a hog wh (lvl 67) at the differences between 190 180 and 170 and the hp gain is about 100 or so, i will have to work on it to get the exact figures. The major difference is that you can get light instead of medium and now get 40% crits. The health difference is really quite minor.

[Gnor]

So you didn't even give any of it a look?  ::) Disappointing.