Scripting and Greatermud?

[Demitrius]

Heyo all.? How's it hangin folks.? I'm a little concerned about all the determination to make gmud a generic carbon copy of majormud-original content.? Yeah mmud is a great game but if the content is all new why not make it ALL all-new.? Making gmud scriptable really really depresses me.? I was really excited when I started reading about this game in the mudcentral forums and to see from a post here and there that the intent is for it to be scriptable?? The original crew of WCC tried like hell to make majormud hard to script.? Don't let their dream die fellas.? Make it so you don't have to script to progress far.? DC you said in a post that you've played some MMOG's recently... wasn't it nifty to actually TALK to people while you game?

-D O0

[The Crazy Animal]

I never noticed that they did anything to try to stop it..

[DeathCow]

Scripting was always intended for the game.  Boards use to sell time by the minute so the longer each user spent on lone per day the more cash flow that was generated. 

Scripting is part of the game that we know, and needs to be there.  As for making it 100% nessicary to progress thats not my goal.  I intend to make more quest driven content.  This will of course take time, and wont be in full effect in the initial release but it is the long term goal.  Scripting is part of the game however, I can however make it easier to gain exp atks.  Quests and complicated areas that require parties are can easily compensate players.  I'm also semi interested in the "exp rest" bonus that appears in some MMORPGS, I just have to make sure that it doesnt become abusable.

My intent has always been to reward balanced parties, as well as to balance classes.  That doesnt change the scripting, I know.  But seeing as how I have limitless possibilties and a vast source of input I can't see any reason why a game with consistant content updates would degenerate to an AFK 24/7 realm.

I can't change the was internet has changed text gaming.  I can only work with what exists.

[Vitoc]

Heyo all.? How's it hangin folks.? I'm a little concerned about all the determination to make gmud a generic carbon copy of majormud-original content.? Yeah mmud is a great game but if the content is all new why not make it ALL all-new.? Making gmud scriptable really really depresses me.? I was really excited when I started reading about this game in the mudcentral forums and to see from a post here and there that the intent is for it to be scriptable?? The original crew of WCC tried like hell to make majormud hard to script.? Don't let their dream die fellas.? Make it so you don't have to script to progress far.? DC you said in a post that you've played some MMOG's recently... wasn't it nifty to actually TALK to people while you game?

-D O0

Many a time during development, I've thought to myself, "Wouldn't it be cool if..."? I wanted to start going different directions with things.? However, when you look at the sad state Metro has left Major MUD in and how many people still play it, you realize that there's a market for this "carbon copy."? Yeah, I could create a brand new game, but how can I be sure many people will want to play it?? I know people like Major MUD, so why not mimic it as closely as possible?? When we finish this, I'm hoping the majority of the remaining Major MUD community gives up on Metro and migrates over to Greater MUD.? We're just trying to make this transition as smooth as possible.

After this project is complete, I can start a new game that's more open ended.? I also have ideas that should fit into Greater MUD while still allowing Mega MUD to feel right at home.? NPCs that move around interacting with people, henchmen for hire (will be in your party), lots of AI stuff, bounties, better law enforcement, etc.? All the cool stuff will come, but only after we finish the basic stuff.

[Demitrius]

I never noticed that they did anything to try to stop it..

Most of mods 1-6 aren't very scriptable.? Yes the original game was very scriptable, sure there are scriptable areas in mods 1-6, but in comparison the new stuff was not.? Then metro came along and added areas that made exp gaining ridiculous(1mil+ an hour).? The purpose was to spend a lot of time on a board at keys, always worrying about PvP, y'know the way it was before mega.

Scripting was always intended for the game. Boards use to sell time by the minute so the longer each user spent on lone per day the more cash flow that was generated.

Who cares, that was years ago.? All boards are monthly now.

Scripting is part of the game that we know, and needs to be there. As for making it 100% nessicary to progress thats not my goal. I intend to make more quest driven content. This will of course take time, and wont be in full effect in the initial release but it is the long term goal. Scripting is part of the game however, I can however make it easier to gain exp atks. Quests and complicated areas that require parties are can easily compensate players. I'm also semi interested in the "exp rest" bonus that appears in some MMORPGS, I just have to make sure that it doesnt become abusable.

What exactly are your plans for greatermud in terms of player access?? Are people going to buy it and set up their own servers?? Or are you guys going to set up a couple servers and run it that way?? Because if so it doesn't need to be anything you don't want it to.? I like the idea of making it easier to gain exp atks, I think it should be strongly discouraged to script.? Playing a mud at keys is fun.? But when you look at how much time it would take to level in majormud by hand then why would you if everyone is scripting.

My intent has always been to reward balanced parties, as well as to balance classes. That doesnt change the scripting, I know. But seeing as how I have limitless possibilties and a vast source of input I can't see any reason why a game with consistant content updates would degenerate to an AFK 24/7 realm.

:clap:

I can't change the was internet has changed text gaming. I can only work with what exists.

No but you can change the way your game is played.? If there's no form of charge to play the game you can have it however the f you want it and if people don't like it...

[Valentine]

Well-put, Demetrius.

It's nice to know I'm not the only anti-scripter 'round here.

[Valentine]

The reason people script like crazy in MajorMud isn't because they made it easy, it's because the person doesn't care about anything but levels because there is nothing new to see, except more levels.

Um...so why am I proofreading all these descriptions...?

There's a not so fine line between knowing people will script if they want to and doggedly catering to it.

It seems if there were new things to see (including well-written descriptions...I'm just saying ;)) people would be more inclined to want to be at the keyboard.

Otherwise you might as well save a lot of time, set up one area with unlimited bunnies to kill and have a running point total to show who has the longest sword.

And charging by the minute is silly unless it's phone sex.

[DeathCow]

Most of mods 1-6 aren't very scriptable.? Yes the original game was very scriptable, sure there are scriptable areas in mods 1-6, but in comparison the new stuff was not.? Then metro came along and added areas that made exp gaining ridiculous(1mil+ an hour).? The purpose was to spend a lot of time on a board at keys, always worrying about PvP, y'know the way it was before mega.

mil+ per hour first came around in mod-4.? There are lots of scripting areas in mods 1-6 too, I really dont know what your talking about here.? People script through the whole game.? The only mod that isnt heavily scripted in mod 9.

Who cares, that was years ago.? All boards are monthly now.

This is a circular arguement.? You brought it up to begin with.

What exactly are your plans for greatermud in terms of player access?? Are people going to buy it and set up their own servers?? Or are you guys going to set up a couple servers and run it that way?? Because if so it doesn't need to be anything you don't want it to.? I like the idea of making it easier to gain exp atks, I think it should be strongly discouraged to script.? Playing a mud at keys is fun.? But when you look at how much time it would take to level in majormud by hand then why would you if everyone is scripting.

It depends on alot of thing.? We have various plans, we'll see how things look when the time comes.

:clap:

ty

No but you can change the way your game is played.? If there's no form of charge to play the game you can have it however the f you want it and if people don't like it...

If people don't like it then I've wasted hundreds of hours of my time.? Thats not my plan.

[Valentine]

What is this? Double or nothing in the "who doesn't get it" game?

If so, congratulations, you win.? :)


Edited to add clarify that the who "who doesn't get it" comment refers to understanding the opinions that have been posted, not the game itself. I don't claim to understand the type of people who script, and I hope I never do. Carry on...

[Vitoc]

IMO Major MUD became more about the numbers than the storyline several years ago.? The storyline was more of a bonus, but what I cared about most was my character's progression from level 1 to level 75.? How many swings would I get with this weapon?? What would my crit % be at this level?? How much damage would this spell do at this level?? What would my average round be with a different weapon or bashing?? How quickly can I get from level 1 to level 75?? It was all about numbers.?

The majority of the remaining mudders, people who let their computers run 24/7 just so they can get as much scripting in as possible, are not all that concerned about the storyline and unfortunately that includes the room descriptions.? In fact, there's a "brief" mode in Major Mud (and in Greater MUD) where it will not show room descriptions when you move into a room if you tell it not to.? AFAIK the majority of the Mudders out there use this brief mode all the time, because it cuts down on the amount of data that has to be sent saving time and bandwidth.? When it comes to quests, a lot of people want an explicit and thoroughly detailed walkthrough of how to accomplish a quest, and many don't even bother reading the content; they're only after the stat increases, the items, or the experience achieved through the quest.

I know it sounds harsh, but that's just the way it is.? I believe people will enjoy the new content we create for a while, but after people have seen all there is to see, they start concentrating on the numbers.? Otherwise it's like reading the same book over and over.

I could literally make it impossible for people using MegaMUD to script, and quite easily.? Yes, people could create their own scripts, but the majority of the people won't bother, they are stuck on MegaMUD.? Those people will simply choose not to even bother with this game if we try to discourage them.

[The Crazy Animal]

I think a lot of that comes out of the lack of replay value that majormud is able to offer a player. After awhile the players own mind keeps them enjoying the game by finding new ways for them to experience the game regardless of the stagnant content.

I've seen plenty of ideas in the idea forum that would help some of this provided they are implemented well. Scripting will always be part of the game as long as we have increasing level gaps and people that keep characters for years on end.

The thing we need to keep in mind is if we want people to come to keys there needs to be things for them to enjoy doing, seeing and interacting with.

[Demitrius]

What I wouldn't give for a better quote editor heh.

mil+ per hour first came around in mod-4.? There are lots of scripting areas in mods 1-6 too, I really dont know what your talking about here.? People script through the whole game.? The only mod that isnt heavily scripted in mod 9.

Geez hand me some coffee that didn't come out right.? I hope it does now.? What I was trying to say there is that the VOLUME of rooms in each mod are unused.? Compare the amount of rooms used in the megamud loops for mod1 with the number of rooms in the mod.? The ratio is tiny.? I could go and figure it out but I think the post speaks for itself.? Who goes to script the mantacores.? Or displacer beasts.? Who has set foot in the northwestern corner of the Dragon Teeth Hills since raydar first made the map for it.? Who veers off the path to markus.? The point I'm trying to make here is that features of the new mods are either quest related, scriptable, or pointless.? It should be the case that content is geared to be played, for fun purposes, with as little pointless, filler content as possible.

Where is there +1mil in mod4?? Mithrils?? Dude I have no idea.

This is a circular arguement.? You brought it up to begin with.

You're right and the argument is meaningless, let's just drop that one.

It depends on alot of thing.? We have various plans, we'll see how things look when the time comes.

I hope its a hobby thing that you guys maintain and have fun with.? Once it revolves around money it all turns to poo poo.?

ty

yw

If people don't like it then I've wasted hundreds of hours of my time.? Thats not my plan.

Outstanding? ;D? I just hope all this atks content makes for a great game.? Sure people can loop around the uh.... Ancient Tomb on The uh... Isle? 8)? but doing quests and playing through areas that are too complicated for Megamud but fun and exciting for a player would make for an astounding, more rewarding time.? Something I personally would considering paying for.? Maybe making scirpting beneficial but pales in comparison to really interacting with content.

-D? O0

EDIT: Response to other people's posts, especially Vitoc's to come at a later time, must sleep now.

[DeathCow]

Yeah i need to change the quoting...its an option.  Original duergars was 1 mil

[ghaleon]

Scripting doesnt have to be part of the game if the implimentor doesnt want it to be. All you have to do is have strict rules against it.

The question is that if you dont allow scripting, will the players that have been used to scripting for 10+ years actually want to play on a majormud look-a-like without it. Personally, I wouldnt. Only because I dont have the time to manually play a text game. If I did, I could think over 10 different MUDs that I would go to over MajorMUD.

To me, scripting is a way to keep your MajorMUD addiction going. Because as you get older, you just dont have the time anymore.

[DeathCow]

Scripting doesnt have to be part of the game if the implimentor doesnt want it to be. All you have to do is have strict rules against it.

The question is that if you dont allow scripting, will the players that have been used to scripting for 10+ years actually want to play on a majormud look-a-like without it. Personally, I wouldnt. Only because I dont have the time to manually play a text game. If I did, I could think over 10 different MUDs that I would go to over MajorMUD.

To me, scripting is a way to keep your MajorMUD addiction going. Because as you get older, you just dont have the time anymore.

Thats a good point.  Although as long as there is something new to do people generally stay at the keys longer.  In majormud scripting is needed because it takes so long to level.  For right now we are sticking with the exp/level style but planning on having more to do.  My vision has lots and lots of quests, similar to a mmorpg. 

Even in majormud people are at the keys alot more when the baord is fresh and people have lots of things they can do.  eh I'm just ranting now.