Those Crazy Mystics.

[Stalkerr]

What about raising the energy per swing required on all 3 attacks?  That could help balance them out some.  Also maybe things like the bonuses everyone gets for being < 32% enc could not be applied to mystics.

Do you mean adjusting the speed associated with each of the MA attacks?

As for the 32% bonuses could you be more specific on how/why these changes would be made or what result you would hope to achieve by making this change?

[twogirlz]

I like the idea of either lowering the combat or forcing a combination of attacks (which effectively just means you are lowering the min damage and avg damage)  Kick is about the most pointless attack, i dont think anyone ever uses it. The other option is to increase the energy requirements for kick and jumpkick so that there is a large window (level 25-40 or so) to use kick. The damage output should cap out around level 70-75 as opposed to ~level 50 which it is at the moment. I think they should be able to sneak but not backstab, but this is against the game's fundamental rules.

[Gardner Denver]

Do you mean adjusting the speed associated with each of the MA attacks?

Yes.  Make it take longer for them to hit QnD with all of their attacks since they require no weapon.

As for the 32% bonuses could you be more specific on how/why these changes would be made or what result you would hope to achieve by making this change?

Well for example there is the acc bonus of being < 32%.  Since that bonus scales in GMud, and mystics are almost always very low enc due to their lack of dependence on gear, it would help reduce their over all accuracy if mystics were denied these bonuses.

[Vile]

Whatever is decided on, I'm a big fan of it being unique and imaginative. It should make full use of being able to manipulate the gmud engine to spice up the gameplay a bit...  Something that wouldnt be possible in mmud with dat editing.

[Stalkerr]

Gard did I send you a copy of my master re balancing formulas ever?  It would have been a long text file with the info for the ambush and mesmerize abilities and the initiative rework.  Everytime i look for this file it trolls me, oh at the end of it there is a list of bugs that I wanted to wor on followed by an outline for a READY/AFK command?

[Gardner Denver]

Gard did I send you a copy of my master re balancing formulas ever?  It would have been a long text file with the info for the ambush and mesmerize abilities and the initiative rework.  Everytime i look for this file it trolls me, oh at the end of it there is a list of bugs that I wanted to wor on followed by an outline for a READY/AFK command?

You did not sir.

[Stalkerr]

You did not sir.

this file is always trolling me, every time i look for it.

[Torque]

 I fully support the destealthing of mystics and think that is the best way to balance them.

The problem is that it's not popular since people think it would be against roleplaying rules.  My answer is that mysticism is not combat at all and you've been watching way too much Kung Fu Master. I don't disagree that stealth isn't more common with this type of thinking, but it's not enough to just take that option off the table.

I was thinking about the randomness with punching and kicking and jumpkicking, and I like that idea. To me, it would make mystics more reliant on items. Want to increase your max output? Get more items. Mystics do need a lower average; quad critting jumpkicks every other round is an extreme average with no item help.

A lower average and the same high output is absolutely fine. 250% should get you a really high damage output, potentially. It would make mystics more cautious, which mysticism is all about philosophy. I also think Int should play a bigger role on crits, as in Hogs get negative bonuses to crits as a mystic.

tl;dr    de stealth mystic, random btween pu/ju/ki, crit formula should punish low int

[Stalkerr]

I found all my rebalance stuff, I'll pull out all the info that I've got in here that would effect mystic game play and add some commentary on how I think these changes will effect game play for mystics, and all the other classes that would be effected by these changes.  I'm tempted to include the combat initiative remake as it has jumpkicks set to a lower initiative base value than a regular auto attack, which is a major part of the balancing scheme I was using.  I'll see how much i can get done in my free time today.

[Vile]

Random madness from my drive home from work today.

Jumpkick should be more susceptible to being dodged. Flying through the air towards someone gives them more time to move out of the way. Give it a modifier to make it more easily dodged - to the point where using kick or punch against really high +dodge mobs/players becomes an option.

Add in more defensive abilities to lower player damage output. This is badly needed to extend pvp to the rounding situation we see now.

Class with shield - block ability. Absorbs all damage for the attack.
Class with weapon - parry ability. Also absorbs all damage, lower % than block. Classes wearing a shield+weapon can block and parry.
Class with no weapon (really just mystic) - fend ability. Can fend off martial arts attacks well, fends against blunt weapons still takes damage but the hit can't crit, fends against sharp weapons take half damage.

A mystic attacking with punch will have a higher fend ability than one attacking with kick or jumpkick.. easier to fend off attacks with your hands/arms if you are punching. Kick gives less fend than punch, more than jumpkick.

For a mystic fighting another mystic straight up, punch might be the best option because while the damage is lower, they can fend off more attacks. Combat is more dynamic.

[signalSalute]

Here's a new perspective, since mystic was originally 250% and is now 500% (which is 2X) why not bring mystic back down to 250% and reduce all other classes by 50%?  Just an idea... 

[Gardner Denver]

Class with no weapon (really just mystic) - fend ability. Can fend off martial arts attacks well, fends against blunt weapons still takes damage but the hit can't crit, fends against sharp weapons take half damage.

What about mages, druids, and caster priests?

[Torque]

I like some of Vile's stuff, but he is talking overhaul. I think we should focus on smaller things, like just getting mystics back into the game and not breaking everything and starting over.

Create some options. Here's some:

Option 1 - 250%, random between pu/ki/ju (Let's call it FLURRY). Nothing else changes.

Option 2 - 250%, de-stealth, flurry

Option 3 - 300%, no changes

Give an option of what you think is best fit for a solution that requires a minimal amount of work.

[signalSalute]

Option 4:  250% destealth, combat-2   (easiest fix)

[Vile]

What about mages, druids, and caster priests?

Well, their attacks immediately get more powerful because they can't be blocked/parried/fended. So that's a buff to their damage right there.

Perhaps they can 'absorb' attacks if they have a shield spell active? Each absorbed attack adds mana, magical attacks can be absorbed more easily than physical attacks... things like that.