Ideas for Deathcow's 3rd Realm Edits

[Stalkerr]

Lots of realm go with increased limited items.  I intend to leave lims in the game, because I like them.  BUT I'm willing to put suitable non-lim alternatives in for some items.  What items in particular make people cringe when they aren't available for their favorite class?  Although, for this topic I'm interested in every limited item in the game, I'm particularly interested in level 10 quest items.  I'm not trying to bait the conversation one way or another so if you have any thoughts now would be a great time to post them. 

--While we are on the level 10~level range, I'm going to put this out there, how would people feel if the 4, 750k quests available at level 15 were spread out between levels 10 and 20, altered a little to be easier/harder depending on the intended level and had their exp values altered to be worth about 1 level instead of how it is now.  (Now its you hit 15, do 3 quests and your teens are over)

[Greater]

Lots of realm go with increased limited items.  I intend to leave lims in the game, because I like them.  BUT I'm willing to put suitable non-lim alternatives in for some items.  What items in particular make people cringe when they aren't available for their favorite class?  Although, for this topic I'm interested in every limited item in the game, I'm particularly interested in level 10 quest items.  I'm not trying to bait the conversation one way or another so if you have any thoughts now would be a great time to post them. 

jeweled scimitar
flametongue
crystal shortsword
witchwood spear
silver rapier
curved bone dagger
golden belt
belt of faith

--While we are on the level 10~level range, I'm going to put this out there, how would people feel if the 4, 750k quests available at level 15 were spread out between levels 10 and 20, altered a little to be easier/harder depending on the intended level and had their exp values altered to be worth about 1 level instead of how it is now.  (Now its you hit 15, do 3 quests and your teens are over)

To me, this mostly depends on the final exp chart percentages for classes.

[Stalkerr]

jeweled scimitar
flametongue
crystal shortsword
witchwood spear
silver rapier
curved bone dagger
golden belt
belt of faith

To me, this mostly depends on the final exp chart percentages for classes.

I mean..like literally 1 level worth..like based on your chart.

[mad]

I totally disagree. Clerics are popular on the pvp realm because most of the fighting is done in groups. They are a perfect party anchor.

When you compare Paladins and Clerics as standalone classes in skilled hands, Paladins will edge Clerics out for just about the entire game. This isn't something new. It's been the case for a long, long time. The lack of powerful Paladins on the pvp realm is a reflection of the group-oriented pvp situation there, not overall power or potential.

Clerics actually end up edging paladins out in all ways once they end up QND with a gavel

Fix? Clerics nerf to Scale armour.. (like a witchy, but allow magical items) .. at the moment the are a one stop shop for tanking, .. plate, heals, just not max HP .. i mean i walked into gnaj's room and just solo'd him .. flex ..

Problem solved .. Mad's rocking around 96/28 qnd with the TSM .. there's no way a paladin could outdo me scripting,

There is actually no reason to go a paladin (end game), the warrior XP chart is too tempting and the cleric will simply outshine it around level 50+.

[Gardner Denver]

Something to keep in mind for GMUD, we have seperated the extra MR from anti magic from the ability to use magical items.  This would allow you to build some type of hybrid witchie, say one with +anti-magic but can still wear magic armour  (or vice versa).

[Greater]

Clerics actually end up edging paladins out in all ways once they end up QND with a gavel
there's no way a paladin could outdo me scripting,
There is actually no reason to go a paladin (end game)

I don't think any of this is true, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Greater]

Mad's rocking around 96/28 qnd with the TSM

This wouldn't be the case without the edited stats maxes, which sound like they're already out the window for the new edited realm.

[Stalkerr]

Clerics actually end up edging paladins out in all ways once they end up QND with a gavel

But the paladin got to high level a month before the Cleric and already has all the lims in his gang house.

[mad]

Ah yeah good, was going to say that the stats are what makes clerics OP too early on, either go for health (tank) or go for damage stats, not both..

A paladin being a month ahead of scripting against a cleric? After how long ... 3 years ?

[Stalkerr]

A paladin needs to be able to get the scripting spots he needs to level super fast.  Unfortunately for paladins in gmud groups of players will get those spots first and the solo paladin can't take them from a group.  The cleric adds more to a group since he can tank equally well and heals better.  If this was a realm of 8-10 players paladins would definately be stronger, but its not.

If there were significantly more spots worth scripting, the solo paladin would out earn the grouped cleric.

If you're comparing them side by side solo...then the paladin massively out earns the cleric.

[Vile]

A paladin needs to be able to get the scripting spots he needs to level super fast.  Unfortunately for paladins in gmud groups of players will get those spots first and the solo paladin can't take them from a group.  The cleric adds more to a group since he can tank equally well and heals better.  If this was a realm of 8-10 players paladins would definately be stronger, but its not.

If there were significantly more spots worth scripting, the solo paladin would out earn the grouped cleric.

If you're comparing them side by side solo...then the paladin massively out earns the cleric.

This.

We need to look past exp charts and look at balance taking into account all aspects of this uniquely weird multi user environment.

The game is played in groups, and right now the most powerful combo is damage dealer + Cleric. There is no reason to consider your tank/healer to be anything other than a Cleric, they are that good. This is not good balance and highlights some of the glaring balance issues.

What would the most powerful combos be? Something like:

• Mystic or Ninja or Ranger or Paladin or Warrior + Cleric
• Everything else... a long long way behind]

Take a Ranger solo though and it is quite horrible.

There may be some other viable options with the right gear and at the high levels. But in general it highlights:

• AC, can't live without it
• Don't have AC? Healing is a must
• 2-hander damage is... insane

[Stalkerr]

This.

We need to look past exp charts and look at balance taking into account all aspects of this uniquely weird multi user environment.

The game is played in groups, and right now the most powerful combo is damage dealer + Cleric. There is no reason to consider your tank/healer to be anything other than a Cleric, they are that good. This is not good balance and highlights some of the glaring balance issues.

What would the most powerful combos be? Something like:

• Mystic or Ninja or Ranger or Paladin or Warrior + Cleric
• Everything else... a long long way behind]

Take a Ranger solo though and it is quite horrible.

There may be some other viable options with the right gear and at the high levels. But in general it highlights:

• AC, can't live without it
• Don't have AC? Healing is a must
• 2-hander damage is... insane

Some of this can be dealt with through the content.  I can scale down some monster acc a bit as well as some armour values.  This would make lighter armours more survivable while not changing plate too much..(if I do it right).  There are some chunks of the combat formulas that are just way off, and many of them are things that I thought were fixed but aren't.  I've taken some time and tested certain things and I know where the errors are if we can get that fixed mystics can probably go back down to a normal chart.

I'd like to see if I can get some work done on a couple of these bugs, if I can it'll make a difference as to how I balance things.

[Thergin]

You cant balance a class based on a limited - 1 item.

Paladins should have combat 3, that will give warriors more of a niche as well.

The exp tables should be closer, and that would make it easier for balancing as well,

Warriors go up, Paladins come down

[mad]

I still vote put clerics in scale, and let them use any 1-h. Increase their hit points to 6-10 and just make them take more damage so they use more mana, and make it difficult to hit the 'unhittable AC'

[Vile]

Some of this can be dealt with through the content.  I can scale down some monster acc a bit as well as some armour values.  This would make lighter armours more survivable while not changing plate too much..(if I do it right).  There are some chunks of the combat formulas that are just way off, and many of them are things that I thought were fixed but aren't.  I've taken some time and tested certain things and I know where the errors are if we can get that fixed mystics can probably go back down to a normal chart.

I'd like to see if I can get some work done on a couple of these bugs, if I can it'll make a difference as to how I balance things.

Lowering acc and plate ac would be a great start. Leather is basically useless right now. The only time you will wear a leather item is if it gives dodge, crits, max damage etc. You are better off getting the benefit from low enc than wearing a leather item purely for ac.

The hybrid class will still be under represented though. The current "get raped or don't get hit at all" mentality is prevalent through many aspects of mud thanks to hard caps and is the root of the problem. The power of having massive defense + low damage far outweighs the power of average defense + average damage.
Mud is too one dimensional. The main roles are dps, tank, healer. Buff, debuff, crowd control and other utility is virtually non existent or not necessary in the game play.