Question on combat

[Reveal]

So I was chatting with some players and discussing combat, and they indicated that some changes were made on gmud regarding making bash preferred over attack, and the removal of qnd.

Can someone detail the changes in combat, and specifically how those effect crit dependent classes like ninja and mystic?

Thanks!

[Kafkaa]

I'm not sure of the exact changes, but I believe bash attacks now gain accuracy from strength, whilst normal attacks now gain accuracy from agil.

Max swings per round here is 6, not 5.

QnD was changed. You don't get a message at all. If you use a swing calculator (the one in mmud explorer is still accuracte for GMUD) it will calculate your energy per swing. You can determine your crit bonus by subtracting your number of swings (has to be 6 to get a crit bonus) multiplied by your energy per swing from 1000. Divide the remaining number by 50 and that is your crit bonus.

An example:

Lets say my energy per swing is 50. That gives me 300 energy used for my 6 swings, leaving 700 energy. 700/50 is 14, or +14 crit. In order to achieve the old maximum QnD bonus of +20 crits at light, you need to have an energy per swing of less than 4, which is pretty much impossible (note that your actual encumberance rating doesn't matter in GMUD, it is based entirely on the actually percentage, there is no bonus for being "light" as apposed to "medium" for example).

From my testing, I have found that when bashing with a 1 hander, if you swing more than 4s, you generally do more average damage. For a 2 hander you need to bash more than 5 (as crit damage is based on the maxium damage of the weapon). This is for a standard class though. So to answer your question about mystics/ninjas, you probably need to swing more whilst bashing for it to work out better (although I don't think a mystic can bash at all and still jump kick?)

Hope this helps.

[Frag]

Max swings per round here is 6, not 5.

I don't understand this.  I always remember it being six swings.  Did this change at some point to only five swings?

[Gardner Denver]

I don't understand this.  I always remember it being six swings.  Did this change at some point to only five swings?

Yes, a long time ago.  The 6th swing was removed and qnd was added in it's place.

[Frag]

Where can I read about what exactly QnD is.

[Kafkaa]

Right here!

Quick and deadly (QnD) was added when the 6th swing was removed. It converted your extra swings into a +crits bonus (i.e. what the cat's eye pendant gives or the mithril ring - sorry not sure of your level of knowledge). Basically if you would always swing more than 5 swings a round, you got a crit bonus. When you equipped the weapon you would get a message that said "You are extremely quick and deadly with this weapon."

I'm not sure of the exact formula, maybe Winterhawk or someone can enlighten you there if you really care, but the crit bonus maxed out at +0 if you were heavy, +10 if you were medium, +20 if you were light or none.

Hope that helps.

[Frag]

That helps a little, I was definitely looking for a formula of some sort.     The *energy* thing is throwing me off.   How is energy figured? 

I understand the crit stuff, though I don't know how the QnD stuff is figured out since it has to do with energy.

[Hurricane Omega]

The easiest way to get your energy used per swing is to download Major Mud Explorer.  You should be able to download it here:  http://www.mudinfo.net/viewforum.php?f=34 .  To configure, just enter your characters current stats. 

The easiest way to do that is to enter stat and immediately follow that with an i to display your character and inventory back to back. 

Open the backscroll and copy the displayed text from your character name to the encumbrance percentage.

In MME, click the paste character button on either the Equipment or Character tabs.

To see your swing information, go to the Equipment tab and left click on the > button next to your weapon.  This will open a drop down menu.  Pick calculate swings and all your swing information will be there.

If I can figure out how to post a picture without opening a public photo account, I will post it here.

[Kafkaa]

Here some pics.

A level 35 Dwarf paladin. 110 strength, 66% encumberance.



Swinging exactly 5s. No bonus from QnD.

Level 37:



Still swinging 5s, +6 crits from QnD. Note that in GMud you'll be swinging something like 5/5/5/5/6. Unused energy carriers over between rounds if you don't break combat. You can see under the swings in the picture above that the numbers go 45, 90, 135, 180, 34. That swing where it drops down to 34 meant you got an extra swing that round (i.e. 5/5/5/5/6)

Level 39:



+10 crits from QnD. That's the cap, you won't get any better with this weapon naturally, unless you drop down to light encumberance. Note in GMud you'll be swinging 5/5/6.

Level 50:



In MMud, still +10 QnD, still swinging 5s. In GMud, You'll be swinging straight 6s and have +2 crits (1000-147*6 = 118, 118/50 = 2.36).

[Reveal]

So I guess my follow up would be, it seems like everyone bashes now. where's the benefit of a plus crit class like ninja?

[Kafkaa]

Two handers are still borderline between normal attacks and bashing (because crit damage is based off your maximum damage).

Bashing is better for scripting, but if you need luck to kill some things you can get a higher round by getting lucky with crits (6x crits is likely more damage than 6x bashes).

Ninjas also have crazy dodge.

Sometimes you don't just play the game to optimise your scripting, and just want to play a Ninja :)

[Frag]

Did someone say Ninja?   ;D

[mad]

I think a start to fix this new (imo, broken) system would be to give 0.5 min dmg for every +1 max dmg. Making the min dmg so low, really gimps the high level chars that rely on consistent rounds to maintain exp rates and provide more consistency in boss kills. At the moment the only counter is stacking +crits which doesn't work for all classes. However having a warlock with me makes me a bit better, but I think the min damage needs some review and buffing.

I hit like a wet noodle on some bosses and it's retarded hitting spiders for 16, etc with a TSM.

[Torque]

In MMud, still +10 QnD, still swinging 5s. In GMud, You'll be swinging straight 6s and have +2 crits (1000-147*6 = 118, 118/50 = 2.36).

Help me out: If I have more than 6 swings, my crit goes down?   1000-119*8 = 48/50 = 0.96


edit- Or does your formula also include, 'since 6 swings is the cap, every additional swing annoted in the calc shall be ignored, retaining original use of Energy per swing in this formula'

[Stalkerr]

The cap is 6 swings...the remaining nrg after 6 swings is divided out and thats the new crit bonus.