Armor Changes

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

Please review our "recommended" changes to DR ratings for chain/scale/plate armours, and provide some constructive criticism before we post the changes to NMR, making them final.  This will be a 24-hour post.




IF the picture is not displaying, the information can be viewed here:  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzOz6_4ex-H2cjhqSGRZci0zVmc


Regards,

Bane

[Blake]

I don't like this at all.

I think you're drastically altering the game dynamics with some of these changes.

If you could explain the purpose maybe it would make more sense?

I didn't get a chance to comment on the last set of changes, but the reason gypsies, missionaries and thieves didn't get proper play time is likely more related to their exp charts than combat rating.  Bards have historically been underrepresented as well for the same reason.  Before tinkering with the base attack settings of the game (which despite all of majormuds faults was something they spent a lot of time working on) perhaps look to change there exp charts for those classes?  I haven't given much thought to the Druid/Mage stacking of rfir/rcol but it reminds me of +prev stacking.

I'm probably just getting to be a crotchety old man here, but I do appreciate you trying to change the game for the best. Thx.

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

The team of folks we have working on this unanimously decided that DR ratings were far too high and provided tank characters with a massive advantage early on.  The reason I posted the info here before making the changes was to allow folks to comment, so I do appreciate you reading and commenting.  However, I have a trail of logic from the Reviewing Team that makes the DR reduction sensible.  What I need from you, rather than just "I don't like this", is the same thing.  Tell me why it doesn't make sense, how it will affect the gameplay, and what your recommendations are. 

As for increasing combat on certain classes, lowering their exp charts would help them level faster, sure.  But, we're not looking to make a level 50 gypsy comparable to a level 30 paladin.  We're looking to make all classes balanced in a toe-to-toe, level for level duel.  We want a level 30 gypsy to be comparable to a level 30 paladin.  Yet another reason for the DR reductions to metal armors.  So again, I would ask for your reasoning and recommendations here.

Lastly, with the RCOL/RFIR stacking, there are no 10-spell limits to GMud, and there is minimal gain from allowing a mage to run both simultaneously.  Our reasoning behind this was to make the level 10 crypt quest a bit easier for mages, where they are having to solo both frost and flame elementals.  Mages have always had the hardest time completing their level 10 quest.  Stand by for some upcoming info on mage nerf's as well though. 

We have a long way to go before full balance is achieved, so don't just comment on what I'm posting.  I'd like to hear your recommendations for other updates, as well. 

Thanks for reading!!

Bane

[Blake]

When you say toe to toe balance, you are referring to pvp? 

The dynamic of this game is such that certain characters will provide different advantages.  The thief vs warrior matchup shouldn't be an equal footing matchup when they cross paths.  The theif is able to run faster than the warrior and should be forced to bs and flee the fight.  Give the thief shadowhome (or whatever) and you have another interesting wrinkle where maybe the warrior runs right over the top of him and doesn't see him in the search.

I'll circle back with you on the DR thing but at first glance this seems nothing more than sour grapes from people who want priests to rule the realm.

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

Priests have already been nerfed per an earlier post.  PREV and AURA are no longer stackable, and sacred bastion and hellfire shield have been reduced in AC values.  So, it's not just tanks that we're trying to equal out.  And, you mentioned shadowhome...we're going to put that ability on thieves, gypsys and missy's. 

Also, all of this will be play-tested on a separate realm prior to going live.  Are you offering your services as a play-tester?  =)

[Aragorn]

Our reasoning behind this was to make the level 10 crypt quest a bit easier for mages, where they are having to solo both frost and flame elementals.  Mages have always had the hardest time completing their level 10 quest.

This has to be a joke. It's a joke right???

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

This has to be a joke. It's a joke right???

You have 2 total forum posts....and this was one of them?  I appreciate the well-thought out input, we'll take your comments under consideration.

[Blake]

Priests have already been nerfed per an earlier post.  PREV and AURA are no longer stackable, and sacred bastion and hellfire shield have been reduced in AC values.  So, it's not just tanks that we're trying to equal out.  And, you mentioned shadowhome...we're going to put that ability on thieves, gypsys and missy's. 

Also, all of this will be play-tested on a separate realm prior to going live.  Are you offering your services as a play-tester?  =)

I'll help play-test.

With that said, the DR - so we're going to do two things to plate right off the bat.  We're going to restrict them from being able to wear plate until what lvl?  And then we're going to nerf their DR permanently? 

You think it's fun being a non-sneaky tank to begin with?  Tanks can't kill anyone who doesn't stop to fight them intentionally.  Tanks are worthless for killing scripts.  Everyone hangs on a tanks attack, and more so when everyone is at keys.

This really seems like a double down to punish anyone who chooses to play a tank.  I get that the objective is to slow down the tank development to match others, but this seems a bit overreaching to implement this all at once.  And let's also not forget that the endgame becomes dominated by nothing but spell-casters and ninjas...?  Tanks are damn near useless other than to hopefully eat some damage in an endgame boss or pvp battle.

In short, those that choose the boring life of a tank should get some advantage to exping: solo or party scripting over someone who plays a character like a bard, gypsy, thief, ninja, ranger, spellcaster, etc. 

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

The level restriction has been deleted, that's not going to happen.  As for the DR nerf, this is only affecting torso armor.  No other pieces will be affected.  For comparison, a level 40 warrior wearing all non-lim gear could achieve a 99/25 AC under the current system.  Under the new system, the same AC would become 99/22.  I don't think this is really all that great of an impact upon the later levels.  Again, the primary focus here was to slow down the initial push of tanks and give a possibility to leather-wearing sneakers to be the first players to kill thrag/mino bosses. 

[Blake]

Yeah - that's fine and makes some sense.  Let's give it a shot.  I was surprised to see that chainmail is getting a buff at the same time?  Didn't see, but does scalemail get a buff too?

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

I was surprised to see that chainmail is getting a buff at the same time?  Didn't see, but does scalemail get a buff too?

Unfortunately, that's just how it works out.  We gave chainmail a standard DR of 15% of the AC value, chain got 18% and Plate 20%.  Magical armour received a DR rating of up to 30% of the AC value.

[Blake]

Off topic, but have we thought of making the ganghouse shops work?  I used to play on a large mmud where I'd stock golden boxes and whatnot and they would sell for enough a day to pay for my overnight tax.  I get that you can't put lims in there, but I thought it was a neat feature.

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

This is a great suggestion, and we'll add it to the list of coding changes for Vitoc.  Near the end, we'll post a list of the requested coding changes and let the realm vote on which ones they want, as Vitoc is allowing a Top-5 list, but we may be able to talk him into a couple more.

[cytrik]

Im still not following the decision line here... Is this solely for a PVP perspective, or is it meant to assist with the PVE side too. Maybe I'm not following what your idea is for 'toe-to-toe', but talking toe-to-toe equality between classes is ridiculous... a lvl 50 thief 'toe-to-toe' with basically anything shouldn't be equal, whether this is pvp, exp rate, or boss killing. I think alot of that is represented by exp charts. You get what you pay for.
A dwarf paladin with a 250% exp chart should never be equal to a human thief with 80%. It doesn't matter what level they are. If you are paying a higher exp chart, you should be getting more for it. I do see some issues with the high chart leather wearers, such as Rangers, but I don't believe the reduction in DR on plate wearers will help a Ranger survive better solo. They used to be one of the most versatile classes, and now they struggle solo and may very well be a ninja with heal as loading them with pure dodge/silk seems to be the only way to make them survive. Yet again, this has nothing to do with plate wearers DR.

Mages/druids similarly should never match a plate wearer 'toe-to-toe'. At lower levels, mages especially struggle to script solo and make good exp. This all turns around at the higher levels when they actually become more self-sufficient. A low level mage will never keep up exp/level wise with a plate wearer/combat class. But once they get to the level they can room script reliably, they outperform most classes. It's the reward for the struggle at the start.
Using an example of guardian golem/thrag for why you are lowering DR levels is just plain silly. Ultimately it comes down to the most determined people in the realm. Be it a solo warrior or a team of whatever. Whoever is determined enough will get there first.
I haven't seen any of the other changes suggested, and I will look for them after this, but this is my opinions towards the DR reduction.

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

I stated "level-for-level", but should have said "equal exp levels", so a thief with 10M exp should be capable of going toe-to-toe with a paladin of 10M exp.  However, after further review (and much aggression from the pvp side), these changes will be implemented for the PVE realm only!