Tracking changes - and gaunts in pvp

[Vile]

Can you please shed some light on what changed regarding tracking? On an 20 room loop that takes approx 60 seconds, I can't even find my own tracks with 158 tracking. Tracking seems to extend to about three rooms now.

Also, can we consider making it possible to bs gaunts? Almost everyone in the pvp realm is a gaunt and being immune to backstabs seems overpowered?

[Greater]

Can you please shed some light on what changed regarding tracking? On an 20 room loop that takes approx 60 seconds, I can't even find my own tracks with 158 tracking. Tracking seems to extend to about three rooms now.

Also, can we consider making it possible to bs gaunts? Almost everyone in the pvp realm is a gaunt and being immune to backstabs seems overpowered?

Tracking was looked at again and rescaled this time around. I cannot recall the exact numbers for the life of me, but it's something like every +2 tracking over 80 adds one second to the total amount of time a trail is visible to the tracker. Don't quote me but it's around that.

Can you provide some captures showing what happens when a stealthed char is moving into a room where a Gaunt with See Hidden is standing? We looked at this last time around and thought we had Gaunts being vulnerable to a BS now to my knowledge.

[Blake]

Tracking was looked at again and rescaled this time around. I cannot recall the exact numbers for the life of me, but it's something like every +2 tracking over 80 adds one second to the total amount of time a trail is visible to the tracker. Don't quote me but it's around that.

Can you provide some captures showing what happens when a stealthed char is moving into a room where a Gaunt with See Hidden is standing? We looked at this last time around and thought we had Gaunts being vulnerable to a BS now to my knowledge.

Why would anyone play a Gaunt if they are vulnerable to backstabs?  They don?t get any message when someone moves into their room while sneaking and the entire point of See Hidden wouldn?t allow for a backstab. We can?t backstab monsters with See Hidden now or can we?

To say a Gaunt isn?t vulnerable is laughable. There?s about a zero % chance any of these aren?t rounded against equal competition.

[Vile]

Blake do you not see a balance problem in the pvp realm when half the characters are gaunt to be immune to backstabs, a major mechanic of the pvp game?

[Greater]

We can?t backstab monsters with See Hidden now or can we?

Actually you can, the same as you can in MajorMUD.

Why would anyone play a Gaunt if they are vulnerable to backstabs?  They don?t get any message when someone moves into their room while sneaking and the entire point of See Hidden wouldn?t allow for a backstab.

See Hidden doesn't equate to backstab immunity. See Hidden allows you to see stealthed players, it's that simple. If a player sneaks up behind you in stealth and you don't specifically look in that direction-which in mud terms would equate to hitting enter-why should you be immune to a backstab? You would play a Gaunt here for the same reason you play one in MajorMUD.

You would play a Gaunt because you are able to prevent the backstab happening by seeing the stealthed player (hitting enter) and either leaving or hanging before they can attack.

[Greater]

Blake do you not see a balance problem in the pvp realm when half the characters are gaunt to be immune to backstabs, a major mechanic of the pvp game?

You have yet to provide a capture. If you provide one we can take a look.

I also see some complaining coming from you about tracking in the gossip log. Might I add that tracking changes were requested by several PVP players, as they rightly found being able to track/be tracked for 45 minutes to be excessive.

[Vile]

You have yet to provide a capture. If you provide one we can take a look.

I also see some complaining coming from you about tracking in the gossip log. Might I add that tracking changes were requested by several PVP players, as they rightly found being able to track/be tracked for 45 minutes to be excessive.

Who says 45 mins was excessive if you decide to forego hundreds of HPS and a higher exp% chart to gain tracking? The community as a whole? "Several" PVP players request the change and you implement it without testing or input from the broader community?

On a side note, can you look at and provide a percentage of the top 30 in PVP who are Gaunts? Maybe compare it to the top 30 in PVE?

[Greater]

Who says 45 mins was excessive if you decide to forego hundreds of HPS and a higher exp% chart to gain tracking? The community as a whole? "Several" PVP players request the change and you implement it without testing or input from the broader community?

On a side note, can you look at and provide a percentage of the top 30 in PVP who are Gaunts? Maybe compare it to the top 30 in PVE?

If the community at large was responsible for development, the game would be a mess. We do take a lot of community input and act on it if it makes sense after some discussion, but this is not a public project.

You're welcome to provide captures to back up any claims you'd like to make, but it's hard to make any changes based on hyperbole or aggressive shitposting. You ask for community input, yet demand changes based on only your own hyperbole.

There has been a bit of entitlement where Tracking and See Hidden are concerned for some time now on GreaterMUD, mostly because both of those abilities granted far, far more power than they ever did in MajorMUD. The problem is that those races/classes weren't paying any extra for the vastly greater benefit they received here.  Tracking is still a quality skill, it just takes longer to become highly effective than it did previously. You can speed this growth up by statting to raise Tracking skill. If Tracking pans out to be undertuned, we can make adjustments.

Any HP weakness of races on stock MajorMUD is not going to be the same here due to significantly higher stat maxes and also increased HP/level on classes, so it's not a very good argument. Traditionally weak health races already have access to a significant amount of more hp per level should they choose to pursue it.

The same goes for See Hidden. Before last push we adjusted Gaunts to be able to be backstabbed, because See Hidden isn't supposed to equate to backstab immunity in spite of it being that way on GreaterMUD for a long time. Now if that adjustment was not successful, we're willing to look at captures to see where we went wrong and try to make fixes.

[Vile]

If the community at large was responsible for development, the game would be a mess. Case in point: you. We do take a lot of community input and act on it if it makes sense after some discussion, but this is not a public project.

You're welcome to provide captures to back up any claims you'd like to make, but it's hard to make any changes based on hyperbole or aggressive shitposting. You ask for community input, yet demand changes based on only your own hyperbole.

There has been a bit of entitlement where Tracking and See Hidden are concerned for some time now on GreaterMUD, mostly because both of those abilities granted far, far more power than they ever did in MajorMUD. The problem is that those races/classes weren't paying any extra for the vastly greater benefit they received here.  Tracking is still a quality skill, it just takes longer to become highly effective than it did previously. You can speed this growth up by statting to raise Tracking skill. If Tracking pans out to be undertuned, we can make adjustments.

Any HP weakness of races on stock MajorMUD is not going to be the same here due to significantly higher stat maxes and also increased HP/level on classes, so it's not a very good argument. Traditionally weak health races already have access to a significant amount of more hp per level should they choose to pursue it.

The same goes for See Hidden. Before last push we adjusted Gaunts to be able to be backstabbed, because See Hidden isn't supposed to equate to backstab immunity in spite of it being that way on GreaterMUD for a long time. Now if that adjustment was not successful, we're willing to look at captures to see where we went wrong and try to make fixes.

I appreciate your response and only want improvements to this antiquated game we have all played for over 25+ years. In my opinion feedback from the community who are at the front lines playing this game day in and day out for hours, weeks, months, years, decades is crucial for it's success. I'm not sure why you see otherwise.

I've never seen a gaunt backstabbed despite several attempts but will find time to investigate this further and report back any results via captures. The changes to tracking have only detracted from the PVP game, in my opinion, and I will try to quantify this and provide evidence.

Are you able to give an indication of the gaunt to non gaunt ratio in PVP top 20/30 just to provide one metric of its over-powered-ness in a PVP scenario?

[Greater]

I appreciate your response and only want improvements to this antiquated game we have all played for over 25+ years. In my opinion feedback from the community who are at the front lines playing this game day in and day out for hours, weeks, months, years, decades is crucial for it's success. I'm not sure why you see otherwise.

We've accepted and acted on quite a bit of community feedback and ideas. We don't make changes based on hyperbole or who can be the biggest asshole in a forum post.

Examples:
Gypsies suck! (Unlikely to be acknowledged)
Gypsies suck because A, B and C, and here are some captures proving it. (Likely to be acknowledged and looked into)

[Vile]

We've accepted and acted on quite a bit of community feedback and ideas. We don't make changes based on hyperbole or who can be the biggest asshole in a forum post.

Examples:
Gypsies suck! (Unlikely to be acknowledged)
Gypsies suck because A, B and C, and here are some captures proving it. (Likely to be acknowledged and looked into)

How many Gaunts are in the PVP realm the top 30? (Likely to be acknowledged and looked into)

[Vile]

Here is your evidence. It is impossible to bs a gaunt.

Cap shows attempting to bs a gaunt with a super stealth thief. First by being unseen and sneaking in, then by being unseen hiding.

Thief POV:

[HP=536]:-rdy?
Broadcast from Robb "rdy?"
[HP=536]:sn
Attempting to sneak...
[HP=536]:
Golden Passage
Obvious exits: east, west
Broadcast from Pal "go"
[HP=536]:e
bs pa
Sneaking...
Golden Chamber
Also here: Pal*.
Obvious exits: west
*Combat Engaged*
You critically hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 131 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 21 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 2 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 4 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 3 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 25 damage!
[HP=536]:rest
*Combat Off*
You are now resting.
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:
Golden Chamber
Also here: Pal*.
Obvious exits: west
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:
Golden Chamber
Also here: Pal*.
Obvious exits: west
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:sn
Attempting to sneak...
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:-i hide
Broadcast from Robb "i hide"
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:-no eneter
Broadcast from Robb "no eneter"
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:sn
Attempting to sneak...
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:hide
Attempting to hide...
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:
Golden Chamber
Also here: Pal*.
Obvious exits: west
Broadcast from Pal "go"
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:bs pa
*Combat Engaged*
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 9 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 15 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 27 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 30 damage!
You critically hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 90 damage!
You hurl your chakram and strike Pal for 9 damage!
[HP=536]:rest
*Combat Off*
You are now resting.
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:
Golden Chamber
Also here: Pal*.
Obvious exits: west
[HP=536 (Resting) ]:-send me cap
Broadcast from Robb "send me cap"

Gaunt POV:

roadcast from Robb "cap now"
Broadcast from Robb "no enter"
Broadcast from Robb "rdy?"
[HP=XXXX/MA=XXX]:-go
Broadcast from Pal "go"
Robb moves to attack you!
Robb critically hurls their chakram and strikes you for 13 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 2 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 2 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 4 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 3 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 2 damage!
Robb stops to rest.
Broadcast from Robb "i hide"
Broadcast from Robb "no eneter"
[HP=XXXX/MA=XXX]:-go
Broadcast from Pal "go"
Robb moves to attack you!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 9 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 5 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 7 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 3 damage!
Robb critically hurls their chakram and strikes you for 14 damage!
Robb hurls their chakram and strikes you for 9 damage!
Broadcast from Robb "send me cap"

[Blake]

Blake do you not see a balance problem in the pvp realm when half the characters are gaunt to be immune to backstabs, a major mechanic of the pvp game?

Half the realm isn't Gaunt to begin with. 

You're only talking about killing scripts like a pussy ass bitch, not pvp.  There's not a single Gaunt in the game that can go toe to toe with other races.