Backstab Initiative

[DeathCow]

Backstabs should firE first in combat.

[HP=526]:bs al
*Combat Engaged*
Alotta moves to attack you!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 154 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 317 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 262 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 319 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 187 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 371 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 248 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 216 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 209 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 273 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 367 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 179 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 307 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 300 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 344 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 164 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 341 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 336 damage!
Thesifer casts Dancing fire on Tyrannosaur for 366 damage!
The lizard stumbles to the ground with a loud crash!
Alotta shoots an arrow and strikes you for 277 damage!
Alotta shoots an arrow and strikes you for 687 damage!
You drop to the ground!
*Combat Off*
You have been killed!

[ghaleon]

it should first first huh? you sure you were hidden when u bs'd?

[Vitoc]

it should first first huh? you sure you were hidden when u bs'd?

Yeah, that's a good question.? That cap doesn't show us if he was sneaking or hiding.

Anyway, I need to redo the combat system much like I redid the money targeting system, which still needs some work apparently, but I digress...? Need to make backstabbers fire first, and then the combat rounds should commence in the order in which they were initiated mixed in with the mob attacks (it shouldn't be a rule that players always swing first, right?).

[DeathCow]

Right Vitoc.  And they next person to assume that I'm so dumb that I can't figure out when I'm sneaking and when I'm not gets smited. :P

[Vitoc]

Right Vitoc.? And they next person to assume that I'm so dumb that I can't figure out when I'm sneaking and when I'm not gets smited. :P

Heh...

Ok, so here's a question.? Let's assume you were sneaking and you typed "bs playername" before the other person moves to attack you, however they move to attack you before you land your bs.? IIRC, MajorMUD let's you land the backstab anyway.? Shouldn't the fact the person engages combat on you mean they noticed you and nullify any chance of you landing a backstab?

Yes, I know you still should have swung first, but it shouldn't be a backstab IMO.  Oooo.... or maybe it should just be a failed backstab, that could be interesting.

[DeathCow]

NO.

[Vitoc]

NO.

NO what?

So the player should still land the backstab even though the other person noticed them and engaged?

[DeathCow]

YES

[Vitoc]

YES

I think that's ghay.

I'm going to tack a message on to the backstab messages so that anytime someone engages combat with someone who was sneaking but they get backstabbed anyway, they can send their complaints and any explosive packages to the person responsible for such ghayness.?

PS. What's your address?

[DeathCow]

YES

I think that's ghay.

I'm going to tack a message on to the backstab messages so that anytime someone engages combat with someone who was sneaking but they get backstabbed anyway, they can send their complaints and any explosive packages to the person responsible for such ghayness. 

PS. What's your address?

Its the way it freaking works.  They can send there hate mail to 8600 college blvd overland park kansas 66210 c/o shannon.

[ghaleon]

If your going to say it thats way.. then if your sneaking (not hiding) and you walk into the room where there is a person, shouldnt you be invisible to that person when they look into the room as if u had typed hide??? if so than I wouldnt have a problem with you changing that.

Right Vitoc.  And they next person to assume that I'm so dumb that I can't figure out when I'm sneaking and when I'm not gets smited. :P

Heh...

Ok, so here's a question.  Let's assume you were sneaking and you typed "bs playername" before the other person moves to attack you, however they move to attack you before you land your bs.  IIRC, MajorMUD let's you land the backstab anyway.  Shouldn't the fact the person engages combat on you mean they noticed you and nullify any chance of you landing a backstab?

Yes, I know you still should have swung first, but it shouldn't be a backstab IMO.  Oooo.... or maybe it should just be a failed backstab, that could be interesting.

oh and why the hell do i have -1 karma? rofl

[ghaleon]

Right Vitoc.  And they next person to assume that I'm so dumb that I can't figure out when I'm sneaking and when I'm not gets smited. :P

its not that your too dumb.. but sometimes mud says your hidden.. when your really not. Not sure if thats the way it works in greatermud or not...

[The Crazy Animal]

If your going to say it thats way.. then if your sneaking (not hiding) and you walk into the room where there is a person, shouldnt you be invisible to that person when they look into the room as if u had typed hide??? if so than I wouldnt have a problem with you changing that.

I have to say this is the brightest thing I've heard on this so far in this bug.

Yes sneak needs to be treated like a move-able hide. If you are sneaking people shouldn't be able to attack you without say searching first to reveal your presence to the room. You shouldn't be able to look at a sneaking person or other wise target them either untill searching or some other action breaks their stealth. Further the PC ability see-hidden should also work with this and show the sneaking player as sneaking, a PC with this ability should not be able to be the target of a BS but all others in the room should be still targetable.

[Ian]

Sneak is not a moveable hide.  Hiding is hiding in the shadows, anyone glancing (looking) around the room won't notice you.  Sneak means you can enter a room unnoticed.  They didn't see you enter, but if they glance around they will see you.

[The Crazy Animal]

Sneak is not a moveable hide.? Hiding is hiding in the shadows, anyone glancing (looking) around the room won't notice you.? Sneak means you can enter a room unnoticed.? They didn't see you enter, but if they glance around they will see you.

It depends on how you look at stealth, how does one enter a room not be seen anyway? You sneak in to the room in the shadows with out making a noise or you sneak in using the obstacles in the room to keep people from seeing you. What is the intention of sneak it is to not be seen. What is the intention of hide it is also not to be seen. If your intention is to not be seen and you are sneaking and not moving in and out of a room are you no longer sneaking. If you are only sneaking when moving in and out of a room how can it be explained that a player can still BS a target if that target has looked at who is in the room and seen you?

This is because game treats stealth as if you are actively moving to avoid being seen. This is why you don't need to repeat the command each time you enter a new room and pause for a second or sneak past a player that happens to hit enter and sees you in the room. It is why you can still BS a player after they see you in the room. It is why you can sit in a room with a monster while sneaking and not get attacked. If all a player needs to do to see a sneaking player is look should not a monster adhere to the same basic rules and abilities, if they did stealth would not work in the majority of the game. If the game is going to go through that much of a task to keep up the appearance of a player sneaking then why should the sneaking player be plainly visible in the room all the time to other players?

If it were up to me I would make a perception test against the sneaking players stealth. If the a player passes this test then the sneaking player is shown in the room only to the player passing the stat test. The sneaking player would then get a message about the player that noticed them. Further the player passing the perception vs stealth test should be protected from the sneaking players BS attack until the sneaking player attempts to sneak again. If the player that noticed the sneaking player then want to alert others of the sneaking person then they should need to look at the sneaking player. Since looking at a player reports a message to the room the sneaking players stealth should be ended. Its pure and simple game logic.