Armor Class

[The Crazy Animal]

More AC encumbrance formulas to test out:

Formula 2.1#
This works much like the formula #2 in the last post but is weighted to place more value on agility then intellect:

(Worn_AC - (Worn_AC * (((Per_Enc - (Per_Enc * (((((Agil * 5) + Intel)/6) - 50)/100))) - 50)/100))) = Base_AC

Formula #2.2
This works like formula 2.1 but the bonuses and penalties are scaled back by 50%
(Worn_AC - ((Worn_AC * (((Per_Enc - (Per_Enc * (((((Agil * 5) + Intel)/6) - 50)/100))) - 50)/100))/2)) = Base_AC

Formula #2.3
This works like formula #2 in the last post but the bonuses and penalties are scaled back by 50%

(Worn_AC - ((Worn_AC * (((Per_Enc - (Per_Enc * ((((Agil + Intel)/2) - 50)/100))) - 50)/100))/2)) = Base_AC
   
Formula #3
Here is a very bare bones encumbrance penalty system based on a bonus that varies the AC from +0 to +20 AC depending on how low the encumbrance is. Note-? It can be scaled down by adjusting the 2 values set at 20:

Base AC = (Worn_AC + (20 - (20 * (per_enc/100))))

Formula #4
This is basically formula #1 from the last post but used as a totaled encumbrance penalty system rather then per slot. It basically fluxes AC + or ? 50% in proportion to how far above or below 50% the players encumbrance is at.

Base AC = (Worn_AC - (Worn_AC * ((Per_enc - 50)/100)))

Formula #4.1
This works just like formula #4 but the flux is reduced to + or ? 25% this could be further scaled back by adjusting the divisor value 2 from 2 to a number higher.

Base AC = (Worn_AC - ((Worn_AC * ((Per_enc - 50)/100))/2))

Formula #5
The sliding max bonus of this formula is set by the characters level and combat rating and then diminished by the percentage of encumbrance used. The max range of the bonus at level 1 is .05 to 16 and the max at level 70 is 17.75 to 35.5 depending on the players combat rating.

Base AC = (Worn_AC + ((((Level + 1) * (Combat +3))/16) - ((((Level + 1) * (Combat +3))/16) * (per_enc/100))))

[Mukami]

However it basically looks at it as if you are bad at physically balancing or intelligently distributing the weight then its going to feel like more weight

i think this must be a mathman/programmer obstical. Im sure that you would love to think that a person can think armor better than someone else but im sure that the armor woudnt be too badly distributed since im sure its mostly fitted in a way that your going to feel as little of the weight of it as possible. (btw that was a major problem with early chain was that it put most its weight on the shoulders it had nothing to do with how it was warn there was just no way for a tunic to spread its weight evenly)

Also I can see the whole race balance being thrown off by the inclusion of int. Neko bards would be great with the +int +agility and a high int/agility combo naturally.

[The Crazy Animal]

i think this must be a mathman/programmer obstical. Im sure that you would love to think that a person can think armor better than someone else but im sure that the armor woudnt be too badly distributed since im sure its mostly fitted in a way that your going to feel as little of the weight of it as possible. (btw that was a major problem with early chain was that it put most its weight on the shoulders it had nothing to do with how it was warn there was just no way for a tunic to spread its weight evenly)

You?re not really an obstacle at all since at this point it just about extrapolating the possible solutions. It might be true that armour is going to be fitted fairly but these calculations are looking at total encumbrance so it?s your armour and everything else that you are carrying. The inclusion of all the other items and coins and everything else a character might be carrying is one of those logical reasons I mentioned before. One more reason for intellect is can you actually put the armour on correctly :)

Also I can see the whole race balance being thrown off by the inclusion of int. Neko bards would be great with the +int +agility and a high int/agility combo naturally.

Until we actually test out some of these it will be hard to say if they toss the balance really. However I tested the calculations with nekos and they aren't as much of a problem as halflings but that is why I came up with other versions of the formulas that scale back the max possible bonuses a little or otherwise cap it...

[Hagrid]

I would like to be the first on the 'balance analysis' forum to address majormuds issue of AC overpowering. I know that a lot of you think that the issue lies in the fact that every item needs to have its AC value set lower, but that still leaves the ability for overpowering.

AC isnt overpowered, its the way its calculated.  If a person with HEAVY ass armor is fighting they should be hit more because of the weight and general restriction of movement.  But in majormud it seems AC is gearded towards actual misses.  Its like picking up a tank and wearing it as armor, sure it will protect, but no way in hell that if i swing my sword/etc that im going to miss a huge weighted down, slow moving tank.

Just make is so the heavier it is the more they can get hit, but the more damage resistant they are.  Maybe an extra modifier on armor for this?  So that u can have a lim 1 armor piece be light and still resist alot of damage.

[The Crazy Animal]

Just make is so the heavier it is the more they can get hit, but the more damage resistant they are. Maybe an extra modifier on armor for this? So that u can have a lim 1 armor piece be light and still resist alot of damage.

That really wouldn't work think about it all the different item types have varying amounts of weight that would make them considered heavy or not i.e what is heavy for a gauntlet is not heavy for a corset. The better half of this problem needs to be dealt with in the design of the items themselves. The second portion of the problems needs to specifically address the issue of the effects of enc on ac. A heavy burdened character is a heavy burdened character whether or not the load is worn or simply carried. Addressing the problem based on worn eq only creates a very biased solution that could quickly come back to bite us in the ass.

[DeathCow]

I'm designing armour in conjunction with monster accuracy..

:/

[The Crazy Animal]

thats not going to help the pvp portion of the problem :p

[Hagrid]

That really wouldn't work think about it all the different item types have varying amounts of weight that would make them considered heavy or not i.e what is heavy for a gauntlet is not heavy for a corset. The better half of this problem needs to be dealt with in the design of the items themselves. The second portion of the problems needs to specifically address the issue of the effects of enc on ac. A heavy burdened character is a heavy burdened character whether or not the load is worn or simply carried. Addressing the problem based on worn eq only creates a very biased solution that could quickly come back to bite us in the ass.

Actually i meant that enc should have an effect on getting hit too.  Maybe just have DR on armor.  Then for calculating how much you get hit is based on enc/agility.  You may get hit often with low agility and enc but you will have a high DR from heavy plate, glancing blows, etc.

[El_Jefe]

yeah this is an old post but people should talk about things.


There is a major problem of chance to hit on armour.  It is the effect of things not being closer to dungeons and dragons.

There is a defense roll and a hit roll.  I think Level should have an effect.  Level having an inadvertant effect due to things like raising accuracy or raising the diminishing return level for accuracy should not be the factors.   Level should mean more than a linear increase of stats.  Level itself should effect something else.  Encumberance then could be part of the equation.  This is Dodge.  Dodge should NOT be negated if you have plate.  Just because something is a metal plate but you are say 40% encumbered, this shouldnt mean you hve -40 dodge.  You should dodge or evade at will.  Maybe there should be 3 levels of defense rolling.  AC, DODGE, EVADE.  evade would be like a weaker dodge that is a factor of encumberance and agility.  Yes, it looks like dodge but there would be no +evade.  It would be a small thing.  Dodge should be irontight and very powerful at upper levels.  Right now, most users that hve 70% dodge are quite happy, but quite sad if they have 70% dodge and 30 ac.  they will get hit like 1outa 5 which is nuts bad for a level 60 neko mystic

[The Crazy Animal]

Dodge is decressed on high AC/DR armour because the current method factors in dodge after the AC roll rather then before if I remember correctly. This is a common sence thing where high AC + high dodge would make tanks more unhittable then before. Its not exactly the best way to do it but it keeps that problem from happening.

One of the other problems with this method though is that for the most part items don't factor in any type of skill in their use when it comes to penalizing players for things like encumberance. And while this kind pulls this topic off topic but the good way to fix this would be from the class data side. Where as you would attribute each class with two main combat ratings instead of one. I.e A defensive and a offensive rating. Secondly each weapon and armour type could also get smaller base ratings that tally up to make up those main ratings. These ratings would then directly affect how the bonus/penalty systems work for each piece of gear on a player and allow for micro balancing between the classes in particular areas. This type of method would also allow for more of a item oriendted behavior based combat system such as if you are a silk wearer you might get their dodge roll before their AC roll rather then AC then dodge. Which would make a High dodge stat player dodge at a rate truer to their stats. Yet still be-able to skirt that issue of having a high AC/DR player getting high dodge and becoming unhittable.

Since dodge is so close to evade in how it works I wouldn't change it for that. However it could be used in a manner that could really help in the game as some type of better hit severity roll that works similar to the roll that decides if the hit is a normal or crit hit. However in this case it would produce a ranged number varing effects such as grazing blow to crit hits. This would then allow someone with a high evade to get hit lighter (less damage) though just as often as someone with a low evade. Its kind of like the crit defence thing we talked about in some topic in this section but with more functionality. The only problem is that a players DR would need to factored in as to not make any high DR equiped player undamage-able and that alone could be a touchy issue.

[El_Jefe]

regular mud dodge is really hard to acquire still.  There are many builds where ac above 40 is really hard to get and still increase dodge.

I think this issue of dodge being hard to caclulate would alleviated by lightening up on the doge cap.   I still think though that the existence of only 2 defense factors, dodge and ac is the root of the problem.   

If the world would be done my way, however it happens, a level 75 halfling mystic would be the most defensive character in the game yet still be able to be backstabbed occaisionally.  however this would be implemented I am not sure but it makes sense.  I think that crazy dodge should be more unhittable than a retarded ac tank in backrank.  Increase DR if you must or increase Hitpoints, but dont make a plated guy in backrank unhittable and a halfling mystic max level much more hittable.

[The Crazy Animal]

As far as dodge goes currently these are the only factors that matter:
Encumbrance, Level, AGL, CHA

Its not a monumentally difficult thing to calculate out but and really the cap that you think you see is mostly via the stat caps for AGL, and Charm... And in the case of a halfling the very low encum that they are able to build over the course of the game has a big effect too. That isn't a dodge bonus they have its to help compensate for that low encum... What they really should have is a "level based dodge bonus" however making them dodge crazy I don't think was the origional intention its just what everyone assumed they "designers" were doing when spotting the big dodge value...

[El_Jefe]

-1 hps a level = they should dodge crazy

thats the joy of halfling.  ZING! dodge dodge dodge dodge

they get no other joy besides that.

if a halfling mage is 40% with blur, manashield and mira, they should dodge much without encumberance % effecting so drastically.  It should just be a factor but the +10 from halfling should rule it bigtime making halfling +10 dodge still sweet.